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Looks like secret FAQs are no more

Crazyreyn (50) | Board List | Topic List | Post New Message | Track Topic

FecalLord | Posted 3/11/2008 10:55:38 PM | message detail

Mine for SSBB just got rejected twice for being too similar to the cheats page for the game.

Oh well, guess I'll just have to post it elsewhere.
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"IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE FIRE" ~Zelda II
"Sound levels can fool you." ~VirtualBoy manual

RockMFR 5 | Posted 3/12/2008 12:45:58 AM | message detail

wtf

A secrets FAQ is much better than the unorganized junk on most of the cheats pages.
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Mookiethebold | Posted 3/12/2008 1:06:55 AM | message detail

I had a secrets guide accepted two months ago. >_>
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swamp boot upside down

llamaman2 | Posted 3/12/2008 2:40:31 AM | message detail

Did you add tips/stratagies for obtaining the secrets? That might be what is missing.
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Wake Forest Fan

FecalLord | Posted 3/12/2008 3:34:20 AM | message detail

Yeah I did, the reasons were:

"Just the same thing that's listed in the Cheat section of the site. If the cheats on the site are wrong, just submit a Problem Report detailing the problems and I'll fix them"

"I've never really been one for duplicated info personally. I think through PRs that all of the unlockables on the cheats page are currently correct. If not, let me know"
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"IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE FIRE" ~Zelda II
"Sound levels can fool you." ~VirtualBoy manual

odino | Posted 3/12/2008 4:29:52 AM | message detail

If all the secrets are listable on the Cheat page then he has a point, but if they are the kind of cheats the site doesn't accept then there would be no problem. In other words, Cheat guides are still acceptable.

Though I personally don't mind having the same info in a guide rather than the (as mentioned above) messy code pages.

The Admiral | Posted 3/12/2008 5:56:25 AM | message detail

Don't mind the policy, but wish it were disclosed in the help files. This seems to be a recurring theme lately.
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- The Admiral

Crazyreyn | Posted 3/12/2008 11:25:09 AM | message detail

^ Indeed.
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FecalLord | Posted 3/12/2008 10:49:54 PM | message detail

Yeah it would be nice to know what else won't be accepted beforehand.
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"IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE FIRE" ~Zelda II
"Sound levels can fool you." ~VirtualBoy manual

StarFighters76 | Posted 3/13/2008 12:59:37 AM | message detail

Who knows if we'll even be known of it.
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How much is a large water? - 50 cents
How much is a free water? - O_o

ffmasterjose | Posted 3/13/2008 2:11:04 AM | message detail

I don't trust the Cheats & Secrets section for Brawl right now. I've cleared Classic on every difficulty with Link but have yet to be challenged by Toon Link >_<

What's your FAQ say about this?
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Petition to view hits for Top 10 Lists:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=41901128

FecalLord | Posted 3/13/2008 2:30:48 AM | message detail

=========
Toon Link
=========

1. Play 400 VS Mode matches and win against Toon Link in battle.

2. Beat the Subspace Emissary with anyone, then beat Classic Mode on any
difficulty with any character and win against Toon Link in battle.

3. Beat the Subspace Emissary with anyone, then have Toon Link join your party
in the Forest stage of the Subspace Emissary.
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"IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE FIRE" ~Zelda II
"Sound levels can fool you." ~VirtualBoy manual

ffmasterjose | Posted 3/13/2008 2:39:50 AM | message detail

Ah. Much obliged.
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Petition to view hits for Top 10 Lists:
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The Admiral | Posted 3/13/2008 4:40:22 PM | message detail

Have all the hidden characters and stages been found already? Or is the secrets page a work in progress?
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- The Admiral

SBAllen | Posted 3/13/2008 11:05:52 PM | message detail

If you want to post a Secrets FAQ, cover all the secrets. Your guide literally only covered what's already on the cheats page. If the cheats page is wrong, submit a Problem Report. I'm not posting a half-assed Secrets FAQ just so you can be first. Things I expect in a SSBB Secrets FAQ:

-ALL chars
-ALL stages
-ALL music
-ALL masterpieces
-ALL trophies
-ALL stickers
-ALL items

Yours, along with the other 15 I've rejected so far, didn't cover a fraction of this.
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Um, not to criticize science or anything, but wouldn't it be easier just to call it "the pink one"?

Snow Dragon | Posted 3/13/2008 11:17:37 PM | message detail

No offense, but Engel is a longtime contributor of quality work, and I highly doubt he'd turn in something "half-assed". Regardless, he definitely deserves more respect than that.
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"Are you going to shoot me?"
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StarFighters76 | Posted 3/13/2008 11:20:12 PM | message detail

Yeah I agree. That sounds kind of harsh?
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How much is a large water? - 50 cents
How much is a free water? - O_o

Games | Posted 3/13/2008 11:28:33 PM | message detail

Actually, I agree with SB here. *Didn't think I would post this*

Any in-depth guide should offer more than you can find in either the Cheats section or another guide.

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SBAllen | Posted 3/13/2008 11:30:25 PM | message detail

It is harsh. I'm sorry, but when it comes to SSBB I have to be harsh because that's what is given to me. The game gets no fewer than 20 new FAQs submitted daily, 50 cheats, 20 Problem Reports, etc. Everyone says they are right when be the very definition of "correct" multiple conflicting unlock methods can't all be right. Yes I know each char has three different ways of unlocking, that's not what I'm talking about. Sonic's a good example. I've gotten no fewer than 30 different ways for his third method of unlocking. It doesn't matter which one I picked (I finally went with the most submitted one), it will be marked as wrong. You want to talk about "harsh" or "fair", how is dealing with that every day fair? It's not, but I haven't really complained until now.

I was incredibly polite with my rejection reasons, and yet this topic was made. It wasn't "My secrets FAQ for SSBB was rejected", it was "Looks like secret FAQs are no more". Because I'm trying to do quality control on the single most oversaturated game ever published, suddenly there's yet another accusation that the site is going down the tubes. So yes, I'm mad. I'm tired of this "the site is changing policies" crap I keep seeing just because I don't do things 100% like Jeff used to. I am not Jeff Veasey, nor will I ever be. If that's a problem then I'm sorry, but my job title is "Editor - GameFAQs", not "Celebrity Impersonator".

So yes, I was harsh in my post. I'll even apologize. But I stand by it, having seen the utter garbage submitted so far for this game. If the contributors had their way, there would be 20 Secrets FAQs that are duplicates of the Cheats Page (though most likely the character unlocks would be "correct" but different in every single one of them), at least 40 "FAQ/Walkthroughs" under 20kb in size, over a dozen 300kb+ FAQ/Walkthroughs that have literally zero content, and character guides written by watching YouTube videos and writing what looks like works. If that's what you guys want, then too bad because it's not going to happen because I'm in a charge and I actually care about the quality of the stuff posted for the game.
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Um, not to criticize science or anything, but wouldn't it be easier just to call it "the pink one"?

Snow Dragon | Posted 3/13/2008 11:41:52 PM | message detail

Well now, it's not as bad as all that. I think this is a reasonable place to discuss things. Most everyone who posts here understands that it's gotta be tough to decide what gets through and what doesn't. No one expects you to be Jeff, and if people are saying the site's going down in flames, I haven't seen it here. But you can fix all of this with one really simple measure. Lay out what you expect from walkthroughs, in-depths, Secrets FAQs, etc., and put it in the help file. I and the other contributors that frequent this board can assure you that once your stance is documented on this site and we know where that documented stance is, we'll do the rest. We will point people to the page when stuff like this pops up, and you'll never have to worry about it. Your word will be allowed to stand without question except from a very vocal and stupidly obstinate minority. But all you have to do is put pen to paper, so to speak, and you haven't. It would make your life easier, and I can't really imagine it taking that long. This has to be an annoying time for you with all this bullcrap about FFX Challenge FAQs and the endless glut of Brawl dreck, but in all fairness, and I give you all the sympathy I can muster, but in the end, you can put an end to this if you just take this one simple step.
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"Are you going to shoot me?"
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SBAllen | Posted 3/13/2008 11:54:34 PM | message detail

It isn't that simple though. Nothing can be ended with one easy step. For starters, no one reads anything, lol. Things in the Help Files get asked on MBH every day. That means they missed 1) the Help Files and 2) the sticky on the board telling them to read the Help Files. The Terms of Use is another good example. I could write verbatim a list of every type of guide for every game on the site and the specifications of what would and wouldn't get it posted, but since only a handful of people would read it there's no point.

I think the problem again goes back to the fact that Jeff always is a softie. That's a great trait to have, but not so great when it comes to setting bad precedents. A day doesn't go by that I don't see someone say "Well so-and-so did such-and-such" but I had nothing to do with that. I guess the problem is that I know what the rules are supposed to be, and I know how to enforce them, but I don't know what things used to slide under them in the past. I haven't done anything that I wasn't instructed to do before he left, so these "changes in policy" confuse me. I wish people could see this from my point-of-view instead of their own. The guidelines are there, and they make sense. I don't plan to continually make exceptions to them. I already covered Challenge FAQs as much as I want to. They can and will be posted within reason.

Secrets FAQs... all I expect is for them to be complete. From Jeff V himself: "An In-Depth FAQ should never be posted unless it's finished. If it isn't, reject as "Incomplete" or write them a message explaining what needs to be added". Engel's Secrets FAQ wasn't complete, it was just the stuff on the cheats page. I told him as much. Twice.
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Um, not to criticize science or anything, but wouldn't it be easier just to call it "the pink one"?

Games | Posted 3/14/2008 12:07:18 AM | message detail

They can and will be posted within reason.

Although I know that my Wakka Only Guide will NEVER be posted on this site. Mainly due to you stating that you won't accept and I can't be bothered to upload it for until October, but I doubt I will even upload it until I know that someone else is in charge. No offence, but I know what your Point Of View is about that.

It might not be a full solution, but you would stop half of these topics. Please give us either a topic or a help file that explains what you expect. I would like to know that before I upload another guide (got a couple of guides for games without guides on this site that I am working on). With clearer standards for the users, you could help yourself while helping the Guide authors.

Also, although I doubt you would do this, could you make a Sticky Topic explaining that you will not accept a Wakka Only Guide on the FFX Board, please?

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Snow Dragon | Posted 3/14/2008 12:35:14 AM | message detail

I probably did oversimplify, but just because no one reads anything the first time doesn't mean it's not worth it to just go ahead and lay it out anyway. Despite missing help files and stickies, I often see posters linking people to those things anyway when topics are made containing such questions. I work in a department store and there are huge signs that say where everything is. Nevertheless, people ask me where a section of the store is even if it's right in front of their faces. But I still tell them where it is. It's a bit bothersome, but nothing to get worked up about. So it is on this site.

In time I would guess that all this will blow over. You know how the GameFAQs userbase is about change. Just keep soldiering on and don't waver on the issue. Once people give themselves over to the fact that yes, this is really how things are going to be, things will return to normal. It's just a bit jarring to everyone right now. That's why no one's reacting very well. I can imagine it being a real burden for someone who hasn't been running the site very long, but this too shall pass, man.

Might a sticky post help matters some? Again, I probably don't have the depth of understanding to know what will fix things for good, but I can't help suggesting things.
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"Are you going to shoot me?"
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The Admiral | Posted 3/14/2008 12:51:16 AM | message detail

I certainly understand the harsh stance on SSBB and am extremely happy to see it taken. I agree that Jeff was way too soft with his acceptances, and this site has hundreds of terrible, incomplete guides for big name games as a result. However, Snow Dragon makes a valid point about the help files. Sure, some people won't read them, but that's their problem. It's on them for being lazy. If the help files are not updated, it's on this site for being remiss. The comments in the other thread regarding Challenge FAQs are a change in policy. While I completely agree with that change, there is no way a new user would know the position without seeing that particular thread. Based on the help files and what's already posted for many RPGs, they would be correct in assuming a Wakka only guide should be posted, as the precedent was set by CJayC.

Also, there's a big difference between the posters on this board and the ones on MBH. No one here is a newbie that's too lazy to read the help files. Several of these issues lately have been raised by veteran FAQers who have been here for years and know as much about this site's rules as anyone. If you articulate a change, you will have the support and backing of the community in full when some new author complains for ridiculous reasons. If we are kept guessing, there's not much we can do.

With a little effort, most of these things issued could be eliminated.
1. Update the help files for whatever the position is on challenge FAQs
2. Clarify the acceptance standards for oversaturated games. The current definition does imply that a guide will be accepted so long as it matches the quality of what's posted. It says nothing about needing to have new content or articulating the differences to you in the comments.
3. Create a topic on MBA or DG saying that the acceptance standards for SSBB and all future big name titles will be high and that submitted guides must be complete. You are doing this to ensure quality standards. Hard for anyone to argue with that. If you do change the help files, it would help to mention that in the thread as well.

In all seriousness, these changes you have made are great, but you have to realize that the users still expects things to work the same as when CJayC was around until told otherwise. Those three things would take less time than the posts you've already made in this topic and would do a lot of good in clarifying issues for the entire community.

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- The Admiral

Tessa 6 | Posted 3/14/2008 1:26:59 AM | message detail

Gemerl | Posted 3/14/2008 2:59:27 AM | message detail

Yeah, I'd have to agree with The Admiral. It's a person's own fault if they don't read the guidelines. And we know they don't, but if it's clearly outlined it gives no room for argument once it's brought up.

There's no absolute solution for this, people will always try to submit whatever they want for a myriad of reasons. But they are a useful resource to have around, even for those who have been submitting material for a long time. For a lot of writers they're going to continue to write anyways and if there's any new considerations - it's better for us to know them for sure.

We can point people to the guidelines and they'll grumble, but at least they know where they stand. We don't have get by on conjecture. Most folks will accept this, and resist the urge for any great melodrama.

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supermanseatgrab | Posted 3/15/2008 11:07:16 AM | message detail

"So yes, I'm mad. I'm tired of this "the site is changing policies" crap I keep seeing just because I don't do things 100% like Jeff used to. I am not Jeff Veasey, nor will I ever be. If that's a problem then I'm sorry, but my job title is "Editor - GameFAQs", not "Celebrity Impersonator".

And you shouldn't have to be Jeff Veasey. That is the thing SB I get so sick of hearing from all these other people on the boards. They treat him like some sort of "god" and then expect you to be the same. I'm glad your different and dare I say that in the short amount of time that you have been an admin or editor at the very least. You have improved quite a bit of things here on GameFAQs and for that alone makes me proud to have a guy like you as the new editor.

You shouldn't have to be made feel like you have to live up to the "great and almighty" CJayC. Besides your human last time I checked and shouldn't have to put up with anyones crap as well.
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FecalLord | Posted 3/15/2008 11:27:24 PM | message detail

Looks like I stirred the pot a bit here, I didn't mean to offend anyone so I'm sorry if I did. I was mainly hoping to get a discussion going with people here on the FCB.

Your reasoning makes more sense now, I just took it to mean that these sorts of FAQs weren't being accepted any more. Not that mine had no new information when compared to the cheat/secrets page.

For now I have it posted on other sites. Maybe I shouldn't have tried to post it here so soon. I was considering adding any trophies and stickers that are indicated in the challenge section of the game when you unlock them, but not a full master list of stickers and trophies as those are more suited for respective FAQs that only cover those area of the game in my opinion.

I think the main thing is clearly things are done differently now, which is fine but if we don't know how we should go about things differently ahead of time, then a lot of time and effort can be wasted. If I knew that the help files were updated with new policies/methods, I would give them a look through. Otherwise I just assume that they haven't changed and it's business as usual.
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"IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE FIRE" ~Zelda II
"Sound levels can fool you." ~VirtualBoy manual

selmiak | Posted 3/23/2008 10:54:20 AM | message detail

@SB
thanx for posting in a thread related to contributions. Makes me feel like you are finally there and care about us. All I have to say is there are some really good suggestions in this thread I couldn't have worded better.

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PeTeRL90 | Posted 3/23/2008 11:58:07 PM | message detail

This might be a bit off topic, but I'd like to know an answer to this from SB.

I'm currently working on a Final Fantasy IX guide, and I'm well aware that there are over 15 guides for the game, and I was curious that if I added all I could (enemy list, item list, weapons/armor, sidequests, etc..), what would the chance of it getting accepted be?
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Games | Posted 3/24/2008 12:10:38 AM | message detail

SB answers that question in here:

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=2000094&topic=41789179

He says that you have to point out what your guide has that the others does not have.

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http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/
Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support