FAQ Contributors - General
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I'd like some tips on improving a guide that was rejected due to oversaturation
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| SBAllen | Posted 3/7/2008 10:17:16 PM | message detail |
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The Admiral pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter... "You could
literally invent any challenge and write a FAQ for it, so where do you
draw the line?" That's the biggest question. If I post a challenge
guide for every FFX character, then someone could make an argument for
pretty much anything. That's my main concern with them. Really to me,
the only challenge that makes sense to make a guide for is a "low level
challenge" for a game. It's a focused challenge that makes sense to
have a guide for it. I've seen some challenges that have ten letter
abbreviations that seem so insanely arbitrary that I don't even know
how they were conceived. --- Um, not to criticize science or anything, but wouldn't it be easier just to call it "the pink one"? |
| warfreak | Posted 3/7/2008 10:50:02 PM | message detail |
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I doubt SB would respond with Lolz in the first place. I agree with the
stance that if there are more than 15 guides, it should be more strict
in regards to posting conditions. I mean, with 15, the odds are that at
least one of them is a quality guide. However, there are still a lot of
poorly written guides out there, and odds are, they would never be
finished at all. In my opinion, these poorly written guides should be
taken down if a new guide appears that is of a higher quality, ie. the
new guide replaces the old. crappy one. And there are many games
without FAQs on it, why must people focus on a few popular ones? OoT,
FF series, Pokemon, etc. Its not like the everyone owns it. I must
admit that I never will play the FF series, so I don't see the fuss.
Its just that the site cannot take all guides, good or not, and post
them up. You aren't going to help anyone with a jungle of words that
don't really make sense. --- Defence is the best form of attack, except when the other side is defending. |
| Shotgunnova | Posted 3/7/2008 11:32:08 PM | message detail |
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That type of excitement may not translate to a guide, and the appeal
may be sketchy, but I don't see challenges as wastes of time. Most of
the prominent ones -- SSCC, x weapon-only, default equipment, etc. --
have actually had good reception in the communities, and have helped
improve the knowledge of how the game works. They shouldn't get a bad
rap 'cause someone's weirdly-premised DDNODLKWJBBQ challenge doesn't
get excepted. I can understand the need to, y'know, hold back the
floodgates from overindulgent challenges, but it may end up being
detrimental to the knowledge pool. --- Take me down from the ridge where the summer ends And watch the city spread out just like a jet's flame |
| Games | Posted 3/8/2008 12:22:56 AM | message detail |
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"You could literally invent any challenge and write a FAQ for it, so where do you draw the line?" That's the biggest question. If it is insanely specified, like the NSGNSNCNONENNENBB challenge guide on this site, it should be rejected straight off. Giving the fact that the guide even mentions that the challenge has not been completed by ANYONE should be even more of a reason to reject it. If I post a challenge guide for every FFX character, then someone could make an argument for pretty much anything. The main problem is that this site has ALREADY got 6/7 of FFX's Character Guides. I should also add that 1/3 of the character's that have a guide has ANOTHER guide for it, which is either better or includes harder challenge(s). You could look at it that you are not accepting a FFX guide for EVERY Character, just that you are completing the FFX section, by including the ONLY missing Character Guide. My main argument is that you ONLY need ONE guide to finish off all the character challenge guides for FFX, not asking you to accept another 6 guides after mine. Users can anyone make an argument that "Well, you accepted Games's Wakka Only Guide, and mine is similar to that, so why is mine Rejected?". The reply would be "This finished off all the FFX Character Guides, which your guide does not do for [Insert Game Here]", which would generally be true. You ONLY accepted my guide, due to CJayC accepting the other 8 (including the TWO characters with Two Guides). How I see it is that you are completing the FFX FAQ page with accepting a Wakka Only Guide. --- For my Guides, check my Quote http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=40799192 - Other Systems Petition |
| Games | Posted 3/8/2008 12:27:18 AM | message detail |
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List Of Final Fantasy X Single Character Guides: Auron-Only Challenge FAQ = _Mace_ Kimahri-Only Challenge FAQ = TheaN Lulu-Only Challenge FAQ = _Mace_ & zzanmato Rikku-Only + Challenge FAQ = SoulSpark Rikku-Only Challenge FAQ = Commander_Greil (Look, two guides for Rikku) Tidus No-Customize Challenge FAQ = Blitz_Ace470 Tidus-Only Challenge FAQ = cool like me (Look, two guide for Tidus (and the FFX Board prefer the other guide to this one)) Yuna-Only No-Summons Challenge FAQ = _Mace_ There is one character that is missing a guide. Wakka. --- For my Guides, check my Quote http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=40799192 - Other Systems Petition |
| warfreak | Posted 3/8/2008 1:20:42 AM | message detail |
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I believe that challenge guides should not be accepted. Period. Because
these things belong on the boards, people challenging other people,
etc, not a solid concrete FAQ for it like SB said. The fact is, a
challenge guide is really not helping anyone on playing the game, it is
basically like saying "if you think you are pro, do this..." Character
guides should, if accepted, only be written to show how to play that
character, etc. Still, challenge guides are a waste of space, and
belong on the boards. I will not read any challenge guides, nor do I
think I will. --- Defence is the best form of attack, except when the other side is defending. |
| threetimes | Posted 3/8/2008 3:01:31 AM | message detail |
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One point about challenges is that now the game boards are archived all
the details from a topic about a challenge will remain on site anyway. I don't like the idea of removing incomplete FAQs. I recently found a fantastic boss strategy in the last guide I looked at which I had not considered at first because it was incomplete. What was there was excellent even though the author has no intention of completing it. --- "Random Name is in no state to be using Pine Towel..." |
| assassin17 | Posted 3/8/2008 3:37:21 AM | message detail |
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Yes, there can in theory be tons of challenge variations for a given
game. But from what I see on message boards, that's not too problematic
in reality for a few reasons: 1) Most people who embark on challenges don't necessarily invent them, so they're going to use an existing resource (e.g. an FAQ) to look for rules and assistance. 2) Authors want to know their guides will actually be read. If they write for a challenge they've concocted that nobody else has shown interest in, or their "new" challenge is just a tiny variant of a challenge that's covered by an existing guide, they know their new guide won't get much attention. So they don't bother writing it until they've observed there's a probable audience for it. 3) Similarly, many players like to know that the challenge they're currently attempting has either been completed already, or there are other people interested in tackling it. There's often more of a sense of accomplishment if you complete a challenge that's in high regard (i.e. accepted as difficult and/or enjoyable among other players). Also, going where others have tread means you have a group of teachers waiting to assist you if need be. Thus, one will see the same challenges being repeated over the years by the ever-changing denizens of a given game's message board. 4) Once a type of challenge gets traction for 1 or more games, people grow interested in tackling it for other games. If the games are of the same genre, the challenge can often be easily adapted. |
| cloud VS sephiroth | Posted 3/8/2008 3:57:02 AM | message detail |
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My main argument is that you ONLY need ONE guide to finish off all
the character challenge guides for FFX, not asking you to accept
another 6 guides after mine. Your argument is not valid. "One evil does not justify another" applies here. The fact that those challenge FAQs were posted in the first place is something SBAllen didn't/doesn't agree with, and it certainly doesn't fit in the current policy to post yet another challenge FAQ on this subject. It would be better to (re)move the ones currently available. Besides "Low Level", I think "Perfect Game" is fairly acceptable. Especially Low Level because game developers sometimes even provoke this kind of challenge (Crisis Core, with a piece of equipment that makes you never level up, and it can secretly be gotten at the start of the game). In these case, the challenge isn't made up by the user, it was already thought of by the game developers. --- Absolute Steve. www.shillatime.org |
| MicFiend13 | Posted 3/8/2008 2:14:08 PM | message detail |
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First of all, I have to agree with the arguments the majority of people
in this topic made against oversaturation. Although it only takes 1 or
2 good quality guides to cover all bases for a game; the ratio of
poor/mediocre/uncomplete guides to above-average guides is huge. Once a
game reaches 10+ complete FAQs, it is
reasonable to increase the standards... but if somebody submits a
reasonably OK guide, instead of being rejected for oversaturation, all
other guides should be (briefly) checked so that the
poor/mediocre/uncomplete guides aren't contributing to this total
number of guides which is the limiting factor for acceptance. From: Meowthnum1 A reader will probably, all things equal, start at the top. Let's say the first guide is particularly bad. That's fine; move on to the second. The odds of all six FAQs ahead of you cumulatively not having the information that the reader needs are depressingly small. It almost seems pointless. Before I go on, I'd just like to point out that that's a GOOD thing. It increases the chances that the reader will find what they're looking for, and that's what GameFAQs is all about IMO. Despite that, I understand your theory, but there many other variables to consider. The file size goes without saying. This will result in a larger variety of FAQs being read... some readers might prefer a huge FAQ that goes into a lot of detail, while some might prefer a FAQ that gets straight to the point. Also, if you either become stuck on a game, or are just obsessed with finding out everything you need to know, it's unlikely that just one FAQ will cover everything. I usually find myself reading at least 80% of all FAQs before I find all the information I need, but maybe that's just me. This is the most important thing though: instead of choosing FAQs based on the star-reccomendations, file size, or the default order... what about the contributor? If you read a FAQ you like from one particular person, chances are they will have written other FAQs for games you like, and you will instinctively want to read them. From: SBAllen If you really want to write for a game with 15+ full FAQs already on the site, your best bet is to explicitly point out to me what is different about your guide compared to what's already on the site. As long as you're presenting new information or at least doing something in a radicially different (read: significantly better) manner, I'll most likely post it. That's exactly what I thought the standard for FAQs being accepted were for oversaturated games, before I started writing my own. The game has 16 FAQs, of which 5 or 6 are either incomplete or very short with limited info. The FAQ I submitted had comprehensive info on everything in the game which matched at least 90% of the other FAQs. I submitted it and it was rejected for oversaturation. Not wanting to admit defeat, I added an extra section that gave even more info and strategies to what I had before, and submitted it along with this message: "Last time this was rejected for oversaturation. It definitely has more information than some of the existing guides below 100kb, and contains something no other guide has: a comprehensive list of where items can be found (at the bottom of section 4)" It was rejected again for just "oversaturation" with no extra reasons or details on why it couldn't be posted. Should I just give up? --- This isn't meant to last, this is for right now TNA PPV Prediction Champion: Bradbingham |
| cloud VS sephiroth | Posted 3/8/2008 2:32:39 PM | message detail |
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Mic, it is very hard to give an answer to that. I don't know what game
you're talking about, but even if I did I'd have to compare your FAQ to
all other FAQs. SBAllen does the same thing, and if there are so many
FAQs available for the game, he is reasonably strict with posting new
ones. If it got rejected twice, your best bet is probably to submit it
to other sites first. If you plan on making further updates to it, you
can always try to re-submit it at a later time. --- Absolute Steve. www.shillatime.org |
| Games | Posted 3/8/2008 3:38:31 PM | message detail |
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Besides "Low Level", I think "Perfect Game" is fairly acceptable.
Especially Low Level because game developers sometimes even provoke
this kind of challenge (Crisis Core, with a piece of equipment that
makes you never level up, and it can secretly be gotten at the start of
the game). In these case, the challenge isn't made up by the user, it
was already thought of by the game developers. What about Speed Run Guides? Also, FFX has got several "Low Level" guides, called NSG (No Sphere Grid - Not levelling up at all). You can also allow your party members to escape individually, thus leaving your party with ONE character. You also get the characters near the beginning of the game and really only loose ONE Character during a certain point in the game. You can also switch your characters into the front line during fights, excluding ONE Boss battle and a few battles in a certain town. The Ultimania Omega also defines what area of BOTH Sphere Grids belong to which character, thus enforcing the fact that they probably planned for people to be able to complete these challenges. Also, not including the FINAL Character Challenge Guide just makes the FFX FAQ list look incomplete. --- For my Guides, check my Quote http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=40799192 - Other Systems Petition |
| Tessa 6 | Posted 3/10/2008 1:40:38 AM | message detail |
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ChallengeFAQs.com is currently available. If only I had the time.... -_- --- ~Karpah~Iron Maiden - 4th February 2008 ^_^ What do girls do during sex, anyways. They just lay there and moan a lot! |
| TripleJumpMB | Posted 3/10/2008 4:50:24 AM | message detail |
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I think the real reason CJayC always accepted guides that were complete
and comprehensive was because it takes so freaking long to write a
complete guide that rejecting it means that the writer just wasted all
of their time. --- http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/38449.html |
| The Admiral | Posted 3/10/2008 5:21:09 PM | message detail |
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^ Yes, but the waste of one writer's time is still better than starting
an FAQ precedent that clutters the pages and prevents thousands of
users from finding information as easily. I have no problem with
whatever this website's quality and acceptance policies are, my only
gripe all along is that these policies have not been effectively
communicated to us. If this website will not accept challenge FAQs or
has a more stringent acceptance policy for oversaturated games, this is
fine. I would just like to see this included in the help files so
future authors do not waste their time. Let them direct their energy to
writing a guide that will be accepted. And for the comments about a "Perfect Game" FAQ or a "100% Item" FAQ, I don't think these are really what is being classified as a challenge. After all, collecting all the items in the game is usually the intention of the programmers, otherwise those items would not exist. The player is typically not limiting himself in anyway or creating arbitrary rules, so those types of guides should not fall into the same category. A great example of the problem with challenge FAQs is the Legend of Zelda. There is a challenge FAQ posted for a Swordless Quest, but it isn't even possible to beat the game using this challenge! You still need to retrieve a sword to defeat the last boss, so this is an extremely arbitrary limitation. There is also a guide on how to beat the game with only 3 hearts. That's equally arbitrary. I could easily find a dozen similar variations: no ring challenge, candle only challenge, no collecting rupees challenge, bombs only challenge, etc. Sure, you can't beat the game under some of these challenges, but you can't beat it under one of the currently accepted challenges, so what's the difference? --- - The Admiral |
| Games | Posted 3/10/2008 7:28:04 PM | message detail |
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^ That No Swords challenge is the same as NSGNSNCNO(NENNENBB) Challenge that is on this site at the moment. I would prefer some sort of restraint on the challenge guide acceptance policy, but not to just stop the challenge guides from being on this site at all. That would actually get the guides that actually relay newer, or more accurate, information off this site. I know that I keep using my guide as an example, but that is because I would have to search for some of the other challenge guides and read them. Anyway, information that was found out on a certain levelling system (called the Expert Sphere Grid) is in my guide. It only relates to Wakka, but that information was found out THIS YEAR. I doubt any guides have this information. You also have another BB guide (yeah, I admit that their is too many BB guides for FFX) with the ratio of the chance that a prize would show up for a League or Tourney. Only ONE other guide has information about BB prizes, with wrong information, and does not mention the ratios of getting the prize. --- http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/ Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support |
| selmiak | Posted 3/10/2008 7:34:18 PM | message detail |
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I like challenge FAQ no matter if they are written by the author himself or collected information from a topic on the boards. What I don't like about the idea having this only on the boards is, even though there is no purge anymore the topic still can get archiv'd and then will vanish between a lot of other less interesting topics. With the challenge FAQ on the FAQ page you can get an inspiration for a challenge and then check the FAQ if you are really stuck on that challenge. Maybe this very topic should be taken to learn something out of it and create something new. what about a new section on the FAQ page, like FAQs/Walkthroughs; Indepth FAQs; Maps; foreign language FAQs and finally Challenge FAQs... And why does the spellcheck underline the word walkthrough anyways? --- I don't care who your dad is! While I'm fishing here nobody walks over the water! -> www.selmiak.de.vu |
| Games | Posted 3/10/2008 7:48:18 PM | message detail |
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The fact that this website stated that walkthrough was spelt wrong did not seem right to me. selmiak, there is a petition for a new Challenge Section in the Site Suggestions. It has at least 100 signs last time I checked. I would give the URL, but that might be considered advertisement. --- http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/ Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support |
| Mookiethebold | Posted 3/10/2008 7:51:06 PM | message detail |
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No, it's fine. Challenge Guide petition: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=38193503 --- swamp boot upside down |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/10/2008 7:57:03 PM | message detail |
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While I disagree that wasting a writer's time is better than wasting
users' time (they are lazy enough as it is for the most part. I get
tons of emails about stuff clearly in my FAQs, as well as a lot of
writers do I am sure.), I would agree that it is imperative that the
administator(s) here have the common courtesy to point out EXACTLY what
will be accepted and what won't be. --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten in 2008: 4 (Goal: 52) |
| selmiak | Posted 3/10/2008 10:31:30 PM | message detail |
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thanks for the link mookie, I sign'd. I really think this is a good
idea, and I see lots of other users of the site do think alike. --- I don't care who your dad is! While I'm fishing here nobody walks over the water! -> www.selmiak.de.vu |
| kylohk | Posted 3/10/2008 10:57:27 PM | message detail |
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Ah, this discussion's still up? Anyway, the latest revision of my
LoZ:TP guide's just been posted! I'm pleased now, both Zelda games
played, both covered. (It took a considerably long essay on the submission screens to explain what the "unique and currently uncovered" aspects of my guide were though.) It's here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/928519/52062 --- "Hello, Klein, remember me?" - BANG! - A murderous biker in a French Movie |
| Games | Posted 3/11/2008 6:46:49 PM | message detail |
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Wow, another topic about the lack of a Wakka Only guide on this website: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=197344&topic=41896614 --- http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/ Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support |
| Meowthnum1 | Posted 3/11/2008 7:17:07 PM | message detail |
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To complement Johnny's point a little, stuff like three hearts-only
FAQs or no-hit FAQs are also very pointless because for the most part,
it comes down to skill. Sure, there are some non-obvious strategies
associated with some things, but more than that, it really does defeat
the purpose of it if you use a walkthrough. Before I go on, I'd just like to point out that that's a GOOD thing. It increases the chances that the reader will find what they're looking for, and that's what GameFAQs is all about IMO. Despite that, I understand your theory, but there many other variables to consider. The file size goes without saying. This will result in a larger variety of FAQs being read... some readers might prefer a huge FAQ that goes into a lot of detail, while some might prefer a FAQ that gets straight to the point. Also, if you either become stuck on a game, or are just obsessed with finding out everything you need to know, it's unlikely that just one FAQ will cover everything. I usually find myself reading at least 80% of all FAQs before I find all the information I need, but maybe that's just me. I'm not arguing that we should have just one FAQ. I'm arguing that by ten FAQs, odds are, all the information is there with as much variety as you could possibly hope for. Everything after that seems redundant. Certainly there's a major redundancy factor after 15 FAQs. I cited some examples of FAQ overload earlier. You can't possibly expect me to think that FAQ #16 is going to have a ton of brand new information that merited creating an entirely new walkthrough. This is the most important thing though: instead of choosing FAQs based on the star-reccomendations, file size, or the default order... what about the contributor? If you read a FAQ you like from one particular person, chances are they will have written other FAQs for games you like, and you will instinctively want to read them. While this is a fair point, that doesn't mean we should start accepting FAQs from authors just based on popularity. I think you have the causality mixed up here. I'm arguing that there's no solid reason, aside from well-merited sympathy for the contributor, to accept FAQ #23. Regardless of who likes some author or another, from a practical, macroscopic view, in the long run, will it matter that Popular FAQ Author #98 wrote an FAQ for an already over-covered game? You're more inclined to read an FAQ by an author you like, sure, but it's not as though if you go to the FAQ page and don't see an FAQ by Popular FAQ Author #2,066 that you decide you're beyond all possible help in the game. --- Randomize() http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9132/meowthumn1gifge2.gif | Y.T.W.S.R - I.W.W.H.T.Q |
| assassin17 | Posted 3/11/2008 8:59:02 PM | message detail |
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Your argument is not valid. "One evil does not justify another" applies here. Uh, how about six "evils" justifying a seventh? The fact that those challenge FAQs were posted in the first place is something SBAllen didn't/doesn't agree with, and it certainly doesn't fit in the current policy to post yet another challenge FAQ on this subject. You speak of SBAllen as if he can be viewed in a vacuum, completely separate from GameFAQs 1995-2007, and as if the notion of any continuity for a given game on this website is just silly. The fact is, when people look at the entirety of the FFX FAQs and Guides page, and they see that there are Challenge FAQs for all but ONE of the characters, that just comes across as stupid. And before you say, "Well, they shouldn't be looking at the entirety of the page", keep in mind that walkthroughs rejected for Oversaturation are rejected for that very reason: the _entirety_ of guides available on a game's page. If the current contents of http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/game/197344.html are fair game for purposes of rejection, they should be fair game for purposes of acceptance. Complete the set, damnit!! This would be like letting a music fan purchase all of the Elvis Presley commemorative plates besides one, and when they go to buy the final one, stopping them with a curt, "Alright, that's enough." You'd send them to the Heartbreak Hotel! They'd have a very Blue Christmas! They'd become a hunka hunka burnin' fury! The set must be completed!! It would be better to (re)move the ones currently available. Yes, because removal would keep the contributors coming to this site. As for just moving them, where to? |
| cloud VS sephiroth | Posted 3/12/2008 12:34:33 AM | message detail |
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I spoke of SBAllen as the guy in charge, and he is. As for the
Wakka-Only Challenge.. are there even people who remotely need this?
Isn't it like, almost the same as any single character challenge,
except like, with Wakka? I think it's fairly clear that a line has been
drawn by GameFAQs, and it looks like that's the direction of the
future. A guide shouldn't be posted for the single reason that the page "looks incomplete". It's that it was mentioned here, or I would never even have known that the Wakka-Only Challenge guide was "missing", and I've visited that FAQ page many times. You ask move them where? Suggestions were mentioned earlier in this topic, and there's always free webhosts or forums. --- Absolute Steve. www.shillatime.org |
| assassin17 | Posted 3/12/2008 6:46:10 AM | message detail |
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I spoke of SBAllen as the guy in charge, and he is. He's not in charge of SBAllen.com; he's in charge of GameFAQs.com. A torch was passed to him. I have no doubt that he's qualified to be carrying it, but that doesn't erase decisions that were made during the past 12 years of the site's existence. If one CEO departs a company and a new CEO takes over, if he/she is questioned about things that are already on the company's books, he/she can't just throw up their hands and say, "Dunno, that initiative wasn't launched on my watch, so I'll just up and abandon it, pretending it never happened". The new CEO holds a responsibility for continuity. I think it's fairly clear that a line has been drawn by GameFAQs, and it looks like that's the direction of the future. Because this line is being drawn after 6 of 7 single-character challenge guides were accepted for FFX, the line is pretty damn silly. I'm not saying that GameFAQs shouldn't change in the future, just that the change should be a smooth transition rather than a quick jerk of the knee. Sudden changes tend to lead to frustration, contradictions, and loose ends. As long as the final of 7 SCC guides is kept off the FFX page, there will be a loose end, there will be a contradiction, and there will be frustration on the part of players who want a Wakka guide. You seem to think that a contradiction between CJayC's implementation and SBAllen's implementation isn't really a contradiction, because there's been a changing of the guard, and some magical slate has been wiped clean. Except it *hasn't* been and can't be wiped clean, as there are still 12+ years worth of FAQs on the site. When new GameFAQs policy contradicts old GameFAQs policy -- regardless of which policy is "right" -- GameFAQs is effectively contradicting itself. In the interest of a smooth transition, Final Fantasy X's collection of Character Challenge guide should be rounded out. Doing so will NOT prevent the admin from rejecting similar challenge guides for future (or even most current) games. A guide shouldn't be posted for the single reason that the page "looks incomplete". It's that it was mentioned here, or I would never even have known that the Wakka-Only Challenge guide was "missing", and I've visited that FAQ page many times. Plenty of people on the FFX board have noticed there's no Wakka guide, as Games has pointed out. You failing to notice it doesn't change that fact. |
| cloud VS sephiroth | Posted 3/12/2008 11:49:08 AM | message detail |
| The discussion is now revolving too much around
just one example. I'm asking if there are people who even remotely need
this Guide, and I asked if it isn't the same deal as the other six
guides. Or any of the other 10 "different" challenge FAQs for the game.
Is it? I clearly see where you're coming from that the page looks
incomplete to some people. All I'm saying is that that
shouldn't be a reason to post a Guide. The reason to post a Guide
should be because there is a need for info, not because a page may or
may not look incomplete to a small number of people. --- Absolute Steve. www.shillatime.org |
| Games | Posted 3/12/2008 3:34:14 PM | message detail |
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asked if it isn't the same deal as the other six guides. Or any of the other 10 "different" challenge FAQs for the game. Is it? No, it's not like the other 6 (or 8, as TWO Character's have TWO Guides) Character Challenge Guides. Although it has similar restraints than the other guides, this guide has information more specific to Wakka, including Boss Methods that relate to using Wakka's Abilities and Overdrives. It explains what requirements that you have to fulfill to obtain Wakka's Ultimate Weapon, his Overdrives and explains all off his abilities. It explains Wakka's area of BOTH Sphere Grids, which NO other challenge guide does. The other Challenge guides are mainly explanations of how to beat the game without using the Sphere Grid and some other restraints. These generally revolve around using either Yuna and her Summons or Rikku and her Use ability. None of the revolves around using Wakka. The main restraint that most SCC (Single Character Challenges) have is Own Sphere Grid, which this guide is following. One of the TWO Tidus guides does not follow this rule, which is why most people suggest that you use the other, more specialised, guide. My guide follows that restraint that the Tidus Only guide does not follow. Comparing any SCC (excluding anything with Rikku and Use, or Yuna and Summons) with the NSG (No Sphere Grid, aka NO LEVELLING) guides is comparing an apple with chicken. The Challenges are TOO different to compare. --- http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/ Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support |
| Games | Posted 3/12/2008 3:35:44 PM | message detail |
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It also answers a question about Wakka's Voice Actor, which seemed to
get asked a lot before I finished my guide, but seems to have vanished
from being asked now. --- http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/ Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support |
| Snow Dragon | Posted 3/12/2008 5:10:54 PM | message detail |
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What I don't understand is, isn't a "challenge FAQ" by definition an
oxymoron? By deconstructing a challenge, are you not removing the
challenge, or making it less of one? This seems counterproductive, and
for this reason, were I the administrator, I would likely reject these
guides out of hand myself. These seem like the types of things that are
best left to discussion between hardcore players on message boards, and
now that the gaming boards archive threads, that information would
never be lost. Realizing this, I think even a separate section for
challenges would be superfluous. Besides all that, the obstinacy on display in this debate is bordering on ludicrous. GameFAQs is filled with thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of games that lack solid information, and all people want to do is blow their load on FFX. Folks, if you really want to advance the greater mission of this site, get off games that already have 14,000,000 guides and write something that will actually do this community a lick of good. --- "Are you going to shoot me?" "That depends. Do you see me?" |
| Games | Posted 3/12/2008 5:37:05 PM | message detail |
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Are Low-Level games made to make the game harder than it is? Therefore,
these guides should not be accepted as they make the game easier.
Shouldn't Speed Run guides not be accepted by this site, as that is a
challenge? Also, any 100% or perfect guides helps people with a
challenge, so they should not be accepted. While we are at it, isn't a
normal FAQ/Walkthough made to make the game easier? Yes, so they should
not be accepted as well. Come on, that's got to be the stupidest thing I've heard. Last time I checked, this site was made to help gamers with all aspects of a game. That SHOULD include challenges. If it did not include challenges, why did the site founder accept the other challenge guides? Isn't this website supposed to try and have volunteer writers that write guides for requested games or a requested part of a game? The worse thing is, SB has decided to reject my guide because it is a challenge guide, while this website hosts a lot of other similar challenge guides for the same game. Although they are similar, you can not port one method to another character, unless you add a restraint that allows that to happen. Even with the port, certain parts of the challenge will still be different. --- http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/ Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support |
| The Admiral | Posted 3/12/2008 6:10:07 PM | message detail |
|
I agree that the term Challenge FAQ is an oxymoron, but this isn't even
the best rationale for why these guides should not be accepted. Yes,
Challenge FAQs may contain great information that is not covered in
other guides, but they do not give general content on how to play the
game -- they tell people how to play a specific style.
Some people like to make games harder by underleveling, some like to
make them easier by overleveling. Some like to go bare bones on items,
some like to collect 100 of everything. These are styles of play. Style preferences are unique to individuals and should be up to the individual. FAQs/Walkthroughs should cover general
play, so that the information is valid regardless of your own style. As
there are countless styles of play, there is no way to adequately draw
a line as to which styles should be accepted and which should not.
Someone wanting to do a "only item you can are potions" challenge has
just as much right as someone wanting to do a "Wakka Only" challenge,
so how can you accept one without the other? And then how about the
other dozens of styles or arbitrary limitations a gamer can place on
the game? --- - The Admiral |
| Devin Morgan | Posted 3/12/2008 6:32:41 PM | message detail |
|
Someone wanting to do a "only item you can are potions" challenge
has just as much right as someone wanting to do a "Wakka Only"
challenge, so how can you accept one without the other? You know, that was actually part of Allen's argument about this when I chatted him up on AIM a while back about the matter. Heh. --- Devin Morgan | CRP #3579 NES FAQ Completion Project: http://faqs.retronintendo.com |
| Games | Posted 3/12/2008 7:27:48 PM | message detail |
|
SB Allen could specify some rules that would allow certain Challenge
Guides, but not others. If I was doing this, I would have the rules
something like this: 1) The Challenge must not be impossible / uncompleted 2) No extremely long challenges, like AGSJJKGYWKJHGFSD (don't know if that is a challenge, but that was just an example) 3) Challenges must be basic. This includes, but not limited to: Perfect Games Speed Runs Low-level Basic Stats / No levelling Single Character Something like that would allow SB some wriggle room for rejecting challenge guides, while allowing him to accept other challenge guides --- http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/ Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support |
| Meowthnum1 | Posted 3/12/2008 10:21:10 PM | message detail |
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I'm sorry, but you're really coming off as a petulant child about this.
There's no need to call anything stupid. Let's debate like mature
people. First off, standards change. The site has, rightfully so, upped its standards. I'm sure that in this day and age, those FAQs to which you refer would not have been posted; however, unless an FAQ is severely lacking in quality or if it was plagiarism, it has never been the site's policy to remove work that was already posted. As times do change and as we do have a new administrator, you have to let him do what he feels is right for the site. It sounds like a lot of the contributor community also feels that challenge FAQs are wasteful. If one CEO departs a company and a new CEO takes over, if he/she is questioned about things that are already on the company's books, he/she can't just throw up their hands and say, "Dunno, that initiative wasn't launched on my watch, so I'll just up and abandon it, pretending it never happened". The new CEO holds a responsibility for continuity. Forget continuity; the CEO has a responsibility for doing what's best for the company. If a decision was made a few years before that the new CEO disagrees with - say the creation of a new department - and the CEO decides it's unnecessary, he'll slowly phase it out. As an example, we used to accept anonymous FAQs. We don't anymore. I'll respond to more when I return. --- Randomize() http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9132/meowthumn1gifge2.gif | Y.T.W.S.R - I.W.W.H.T.Q |
| Games | Posted 3/12/2008 11:24:59 PM | message detail |
|
SBAllen said I am not currently aware of any "change of policy" in anything. Meowthnum1 said First off, standards change. The site has, rightfully so, upped its standards. According to SB, there has been no "change of policy" in how guides are accepted. He then states that he does not want to accept Challenge Guides because he thinks that "A FAQ is concrete and something that isn't supposed to really frequently change" and mentions that "If Jeff hadn't already started a policy of posting "challenge" FAQs before I took over, I would not accept them. Period." He also feels that accepting ONE challenge guide will make it that he can not "draw the line". First of all, he HAS changed a policy, as he has admitted that CJayC had started a policy of accepting Challenge Guides. While he HAS changed a policy, he is claiming that he has NOT changed a policy. I would wish that SB would explain things more clearly than giving us contradictory evidence IN THE SAME POST! The challenge guides ARE concrete. Once a method is found that works, most people will keep using that method. Like in a normal game, if a better method is found, people might update their guide to accommodate this new information. A Single Character Guide states that you can only use ONE character. Generally, you can add some more rules to make the challenge harder, but the basic concept is concrete. As mentioned earlier, you could easily set limits on challenge guides. If those new, imposed limits, people would have a better idea of why their challenge guide was rejected, rather than getting the normal "Oversaturation, Overspecialized" "reason" that can easily be contradicted by the accepted challenge guides on the website. I mean, how is a "Wakka Only" Challenge Guide more Specialized than a "NSGNSNCNONENNENBB" Challenge Guide? Personally, I would not mind my Wakka Only Guide being rejected if the other 6 playable characters didn't have a guide on this website. I wouldn't mind it if the uncompleted NSGNSNCNONENNENBB Challenge did not have a Guide on this website. --- http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/ Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support |
| cloud VS sephiroth | Posted 3/12/2008 11:36:39 PM | message detail |
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1. Challenge FAQs used to get accepted, now they aren't accepted anymore. 2. That's about the only thing that has changed for "the policy". And.... that's about it. I don't think this'll change, so feel free to discuss more, but know that it's not going to mean any changes. --- Absolute Steve. www.shillatime.org |
| Tessa 6 | Posted 3/13/2008 12:51:19 AM | message detail |
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A FAQ is concrete and something that isn't supposed to really frequently change Well, there better be no more FAQs for online games posted then! --- ~Karpah~Iron Maiden - 4th February 2008 ^_^ What do girls do during sex, anyways. They just lay there and moan a lot! |
| assassin17 | Posted 3/13/2008 2:54:42 AM | message detail |
|
Forget continuity; the CEO has a responsibility for doing what's
best for the company. If a decision was made a few years before that
the new CEO disagrees with - say the creation of a new department - and
the CEO decides it's unnecessary, he'll slowly phase it out. Emphasis added on the words "slowly phase". Whether the CEO likes the department or not, he can't pretend it doesn't exist; like you said, he has to gradually get rid of it. Gradual changes, unlike sudden changes, inherently possess some continuity. The analog here is pretty obvious. If GameFAQs wishes to phase out Single Character Challenge FAQs, they should let collections of such FAQs be rounded out for games which are nearly complete in that area (e.g. FFX), rather than abruptly shutting off all SCC contributions. I'm surprised you took issue with my statements on continuity, as we actually seem to be expressing similar views on the concept. |
| manudude02 | Posted 3/13/2008 11:20:31 PM | message detail |
| There seems to be one assumption which has been
made throughout this discussion, and that is that everyone who reads
the FAQs reads it from top to bottom following it by the letter. This
is often far from the truth with regards to challenges. Particularly in
long games such as the FFs, is it really that much of a problem to
allow challenge FAQs so any players don't play the challenge for 50
hours+ only to find they forgot an important item fairly early in the
game that would have otherwise made the challenge doable? For some people, myself included, these FAQs are an inspiration with regards to strategies (though not necessarily the strategies posted) and even new challenges. A serious gamer's mindset is nearly always to constantly challenge themselves and improve as a result. FAQs help in doing this by providing new information and inspiration on how to challenge themselves further. Frankly, anyone who is doing a challenge using a challenge FAQ the whole way through should not be doing it in the first place. While these challenge topics exist on games such as FFX, it must be understood that these games are still very popular and any questions that come up may flood themselves out along with progress reports that people make. As a result, unless the user has the posts arranged oldest first, they may still find it very difficult to find out if an answer to their question was ever posted. I think that if it's possible, the site should allow challenge "sets" such as single character to be completed and other challenges such as a Speed Run/ODINS, perfect game and "low level" should be accepted if it is known for the challenge to be popular. --- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6UDieuT25cA The reason L-block won the char. contest? |
| DarkHorseRequie | Posted 3/14/2008 2:10:23 AM | message detail |
|
I just wanted to pipe in with my thoughts. They don't mean anything
with regards to policy, so I readily expect them to be ignored on this
subject. I enjoy reading the Challenge FAQs, among many other more "in-depth" type guides here for various games. That said, I also enjoy the NES FF board, as has been mentioned. Though I don't own a lot of games that I read about, I stil enjoy reading about the mechanics of some games. This also expresses itself when I read about limiting a way to play the game. I find it enjoying. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone, but certainly a minority. That said, I wouldn't like trying to find topics among many that are archived. I suppose I'd support the Challenge section for the FAQs. However, I do understand what's been said. And...eh, whatever. When I actually try to write something, maybe I'll care more. --- :3 Put this in your sig if maybe you're a lion. Rikku's 4x Elemental Strike weapon is called Deus Ex Machina, does that make her a plot device?-Mace22 |
| Games | Posted 3/14/2008 5:32:58 PM | message detail |
|
Just thought, I am writing a guide for a game that has no guides and was wondering if SB would accept this. Generally, I would not worry, as the game has no guides on this website, but a part of his comment has made me think differently. This is the comment I will be referring to: "A FAQ is concrete and something that isn't supposed to really frequently change." The main problem with this is that the game is non-concrete. Playing the game on my PC will be different to playing the game on another person's PC. Even playing the game after installing new software will make the game different than before. Then you have the Add-Ons, which makes the game even less concrete than it was beforehand. Before you state that I am being sarcastic, I should warn you that I am telling the truth about the game. It works by the files and folders that you have installed on your PC, thus meaning that the game would be less concrete than a Challenge Guide! As SB has stated that he thinks that a Challenge Guide is non-concrete, thus should not have a guide, does that effect games without guides that are even less concrete than Challenges? --- http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/ Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support |
| The Admiral | Posted 3/14/2008 6:03:55 PM | message detail |
|
There's no reason to be facetious and try to pick apart SB's syntax.
It's obvious what he means. Artificial, user-created challenges will
not be accepted. Online games and others that change on their own are
perfectly fine. You, as the writer, should be clear about the version
and add-ons you are using, but it's not your fault that the game will
change over time or plays differently on some machines. --- - The Admiral |
| AWing Pilot | Posted 3/14/2008 10:03:18 PM | message detail |
|
I have an interesting sort of related question. Is there any limit to
how long GameFAQs is allowed to post guides? Once you give permission
its indefinite until you say otherwise right? The OoT's and FFVII's all have a few guides from authors that are no longer around these parts. Maybe something can be done where older guides are removed if the author can't be contacted. Just to make free up the space on the page for new guides. The quality level needed not being changed of course. ....that post barely made sense to me and I typed it. grr. |
| Games | Posted 3/14/2008 10:43:03 PM | message detail |
|
Once it is up, it has to either be pulled by the creator or be
seriously wrong or unreadable (although, I have seen some unreadable
guides on this website) to be pulled. I think that they should pull guides that are half-completed that has not been updated after a year of it's last update. I bet A LOT of people would be against that, which is why I am not making a petition about it. --- http://www.geocities.com/games_ps2_pc/ Website that hosts all my guides and links to petitions I support |
| warfreak | Posted 3/14/2008 10:43:23 PM | message detail |
|
Look, there is really no reason to whinge and whine like little
schoolgirls here, SB has now told us that the previous policy of
accepting challenge FAQs are no longer in place, therefore, these
guides are no longer accepted. It has nothing to do with what game it
is, or who wrote it, I mean, I could write one and still get rejected.
The fact of the matter is, and to sum up some of the peoples thoughts,
these guides to not teach people how to play the game, they tell them
what to do in a specific manner. Sure, they contain info otherwise not
contained in the other walkthtroughs, but in the end, they are not
helping anyone, they are just challenging the player to a challenge.
Therefore, it isn't helping
anyone, it is challenging someone. And because of that, I suspect, is
the reason they are no longer accepted and this should be the end of
discussion, challenge guides are no longer accepted. Period. --- Defence is the best form of attack, except when the other side is defending. |
| assassin17 | Posted 3/16/2008 1:46:54 AM | message detail |
|
The fact of the matter is, and to sum up some of the peoples
thoughts, these guides to (sic) not teach people how to play the game,
they tell them what to do in a specific manner. Sure, they contain info
otherwise not contained in the other walkthtroughs, but in the end,
they are not helping anyone, they are just challenging the player to a
challenge. Therefore, it isn't helping anyone, it is challenging
someone. Nonsense. Like Shotgunnova said, many challenge guides "have helped improve the knowledge of how the game works". Beating a game at insanely low levels, with a barebones spell list, or with a one-person party require great resourcefulness on the part of the player. People often need to learn all sorts of things about the game if they want to successfully complete one of these challenges. Much of the research conducted when authoring a challenge guide is relevant to *anybody* who plays through the game, not just to a small niche group. Tactics devised for playing a challenge can translate to superior efficiency in a conventional playthrough. Many of the "strategies" that appear in walkthroughs, particular the early ones submitted for a game, are laughable. They consist of "Level up and/or use the cheapo brute force attack with the long animation", rinse, and repeat. Not only can this approach leave the protagonists needlessly battered, but it's also boring as all hell. Challenge guides greatly raise the bar from this because they require actual *investigation* of the game. If a tactic succeeds in a constraint-ridden challenge, chances are good it'll utterly dominate when you're playing with a full party at full levels. Once this bar has been raised, you'll also see later "conventional" walkthroughs adopting far better strategies than the previous generation of walkthroughs. For some games, the difference between pre-challenge-guide and post-challenge-guide walkthroughs is night and day. This vast improvement is no coincidence. If you relegate challenge guides to obscurity by keeping them off the site -- or burying them in a giant pile of archived topics -- it's likely that many conventional walkthrough writers will never be privvy to the tactics contained therein. Thus, readers won't see the evolution in walkthroughs that can and should take place over time. Instead, you'll be left reading strategies resembling the one featured in my sig. --- "Attacks are the best attack." -- RedDemon's strategy for the 2nd to last boss in FF3us -- http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/final_fantasy_iii_boss.txt |
| bodo_parkour | Posted 3/16/2008 2:48:35 AM | message detail |
| If SB has said that he doesn't believe Challenge
FAQs have a place on GameFAQs, why does everyone keep going on about
it? There are plenty of sites out there who would love to post
challenge guides, because GameFAQs isn't the only one. --- "Yes! Got Sig'd! Haven't been sig'd in a while."~King Kool |
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