FAQ Contributors - Social
Time to remove the #'s from Final Fantasy titles?
| The Admiral | Posted 3/26/2007 3:12:03 PM | message detail |
|
Anyone else think it's time to quit adding numbers to new FF games? I
mean, seeing the question on the home page regarding Final Fantasy
MMDLXXXIII made me realize that it's time for a change. Since the games
have nothing to do with one another anyway, why not shift to adding
titles (like the Castlevania series) rather than tallying to an obscene
point? I also think I'd be much easier to market something like "Final
Fantasy: Dark Shadows" than Final Fantasy XIII. So who's with me? --- - The Admiral |
| Snow Dragon | Posted 3/26/2007 4:59:06 PM | message detail |
|
Castlevania's method would be better if they didn't subtitle every game
as "_____ of _____". They probably just pull words out of a hat to come
up with their titles. Tango of Misery Pain of Sunset Twilight of Souls Blood of Sinners Wings of the Sun See that? I just made up five off the top of my head, and at least three of them have a good chance of being the title of a future Castlevania installment. Someone with more knowledge of such matters than myself should make a Castlevania subtitle generator, actually. --- Now what the deal is is you gonna have to get over there and figure out what that's all about |
| TIDQ | Posted 3/26/2007 6:29:30 PM | message detail |
|
Actually, I want the opposite to happen. I want all sequels to be numbered, and numbered CORRECTLY, and to stop with the confusing titles that muddle the continuity. One thing that is driving me crazy is the name "Grand Theft Auto 4," which implies that it's somehow more of a sequel to GTA3 than Vice City or San Andreas. It should be called GTA6. I pretty much agree with the Angry Video Game Nerd 100% in his rant about movie and video game sequels. http://youtube.com/watch?v=OEVzPCY2T-g --- South Dakota State for WNIT Champions! S&R Social: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=571806 |
| The Admiral | Posted 3/26/2007 6:42:27 PM | message detail |
|
I would argue that a numerical sequel designation should only be used if the game is actually a sequel.
This is at least somewhat true in the Castlevania series. The Final
Fantasy games have nothing in common, and are not sequels of anything.
Square only uses the name for economic purposes. It's kind of
misleading, if you think about it. --- - The Admiral |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/27/2007 1:44:57 AM | message detail |
|
None of the new FF games are real FF games, anyway. That would normally
be my argument, that it ****s up tradition and everyone will think the
games are like the God awful Crystal Chronicles, but since FF games are
now Kingdom Hearts games, go for it. So yeah, agreeing with Admiral.
Leave the good games by themselves. -Zoop --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/27/2007 4:13:38 AM | message detail |
|
How is FF12 not a "real" FF anyways? They should keep numbering them. It makes them easier to follow as compared to having 11 games and trying to figure out what order they came in. --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten: 8/52 |
| The Admiral | Posted 3/27/2007 4:52:37 AM | message detail |
|
Why does it matter what order they came out in? --- - The Admiral |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/27/2007 4:56:06 AM | message detail |
|
So people can play them in order? Storyline they don't connect, but each game tried to evolve the gameplay to a certain extent. --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten: 8/52 |
| Devin Morgan | Posted 3/27/2007 5:21:23 AM | message detail |
|
Crystal Chronicles was an offshoot using the same name. I never played
it so I can't accurately judge whether it was good or not. FF12 on the
other hand... I enjoyed it. Sure it may be a bit of a departure from
previous FF games, but that doesn't make it a _bad_ game. Actually Zoop, what do you consider a "new" FF game (post-VI I'm assuming?), and what makes them not "real"? --- Devin Morgan | CRP #3579 FAQ Completion Projects (NES, GB/GBC): http://faqs.retronintendo.com |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/27/2007 6:38:32 AM | message detail |
|
Calling CC a FF game is like calling FFT one, though. FFT is clearly an Ogre Battle ripoff, and CC is clearly a Mana game. --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten: 8/52 |
| Karpah | Posted 3/27/2007 6:47:28 AM | message detail |
|
I have no problem with them being numbered, as long as they're numbered
properly (the whole 3/6j, 2/4/whatever mixups were annoying). --- Tell me that past times wont die, tell me that old lies are alive... o.O Push button to turn on. Play with button to drive wild... |
| PeTeRL90 | Posted 3/27/2007 7:43:12 AM | message detail |
|
It really doesn't bother me at all, really. But I think adding a 2 next to a Roman numeral is a dumb idea. --- Game Collection: http://club.ign.com/b/list/custom?&lid=100018&owner=PeTeRL90&mode=vown |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/27/2007 8:25:42 AM | message detail |
|
Just because you add equipment and leveling up to an action game
doesn't make it an RPG. If so, then Devil May Cry is an RPG, and Zelda.
Random battles, a full party being controlled, turn-based fighting...
That's what an RPG is to me. Anything beyond that, I'm not interested.
I'm sure FFXII is a great action game, but it doesn't interest me. I wrote a huge piece in my IGN Blog a year ago about it... I'd search for the link, but that'd take effort. ;) -Zoop --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| Karpah | Posted 3/27/2007 9:25:23 AM | message detail |
|
Your loss, Zoopster. FFXII is a great game. --- Tell me that past times wont die, tell me that old lies are alive... o.O Push button to turn on. Play with button to drive wild... |
| Super Slash | Posted 3/27/2007 9:28:35 AM | message detail |
|
*agrees with Karpie* --- Current Amount of FAQs: 14 (3072 Total KB) Current KB FAQ Rank: 3K Series Champion |
| SayainPrince | Posted 3/27/2007 5:23:23 PM | message detail |
|
Bah, I feel bad now. Zoop is 100% right here. --- April 1st... The streak will die. Unleash the Animal |
| TIDQ | Posted 3/27/2007 5:35:26 PM | message detail |
|
Just because you add equipment and leveling up to an action game doesn't make it an RPG. I think someone needs to explain to Zoop the concept of an action RPG. It's a very large sub-genre. Existed for a long time. --- South Dakota State for WNIT Champions! S&R Social: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=571806 |
| Crazyreyn | Posted 3/27/2007 6:38:09 PM | message detail |
|
FFXII is incredible. However I agree that it's a very different FF, the
gameplay and battle system is totally different, however the music,
plot and characters are pretty average (which partly what makes FF what
it is). --- 51/74 Full Circle | Y.T.W.S.R. | FCB History - http://www.crazyreyn.com/fcbhistory/ |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/27/2007 7:29:33 PM | message detail |
|
And action RPGs don't interest me unless it's got a "Developed by
BioWare" logo on the intro screen. I'm sure FFXII is a fantastic action
game. But I don't play practically any action RPGs. Why? They don't
interest me. I'm sure Warcraft is an amazing strategy game, but I don't
care. Why? I'm not interested in strategy games. Toggling between
characters in real-time while the AI decides what my inactives
characters do just isn't fun for me. It detaches from the character
development for me. -Zoop --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/27/2007 8:10:21 PM | message detail |
|
Calling FF12 an action RPG is dumb. --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten: 8/52 |
| Shotgunnova | Posted 3/27/2007 8:22:45 PM | message detail |
|
Don't bother with FFXII. Get Radiata Stories instead. :D --- Take me down from the ridge where the summer ends And watch the city spread out just like a jet's flame |
| PeTeRL90 | Posted 3/27/2007 8:30:55 PM | message detail |
|
Agreed with Steve. It's not exactly an Action RPG when there's a small build up to actually launch your attacks. --- Game Collection: http://club.ign.com/b/list/custom?&lid=100018&owner=PeTeRL90&mode=vown |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/27/2007 8:32:36 PM | message detail |
|
Calling it worthy of playing is dumb, but that's an opinion, so I don't
attempt to prove it, just as calling it anything but an action RPG is
dumb because it's a fact, something you can't disprove. -Zoop --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/27/2007 8:43:08 PM | message detail |
|
For those interested: http://blogs.ign.com/ZoopNOVA/2006/07/28/26463/ --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| PeTeRL90 | Posted 3/27/2007 8:43:36 PM | message detail |
|
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how it's an action RPG when you have to
choose your actions off of a menu and then have to wait about 5 seconds
for your attack to launch. --- Game Collection: http://club.ign.com/b/list/custom?&lid=100018&owner=PeTeRL90&mode=vown |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/27/2007 8:44:19 PM | message detail |
|
Oh, missed Devin... "New" is post-X. Non-turn-based, thus
non-traditional. FFIX is my favorite FF, actually, so definitely not
post-VI. --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/27/2007 8:49:40 PM | message detail |
|
Clearly you have to use a menu. It's not a keyboard. There are too many
commands and not enough buttons. From a development standpoint, you'd
be left with HORRIBLE options otherwise (i.e. hotlinking two spells to
two buttons for mages, manually rearranging hotlinks for all buttons
with tanks, etc.). It only makes sense to have a menu. If it were a PC
game, you'd have unlimited button combinations at your disposal, and
thus no need for a menu, even with the mages that have 40 spells. -Zoop --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| PeTeRL90 | Posted 3/27/2007 9:38:55 PM | message detail |
|
Granted you need to use a menu for something, but why exactly do you
need to use a menu to normally attack and then wait 5 seconds for that
attack to launch if it's an Action RPG? --- Game Collection: http://club.ign.com/b/list/custom?&lid=100018&owner=PeTeRL90&mode=vown |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/27/2007 9:45:37 PM | message detail |
|
Peter is completelyright. "Of course you need to use a menu to attack."
Uh.. Tales? Star Ocean? Radiata Stories? Those are action RPGs. FF12 is a turn based RPG, whether or not you like it is not the point. --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten: 8/52 |
| Gbness | Posted 3/28/2007 12:20:24 AM | message detail |
|
If FFXII didn't have the wait between the attacks coming, it would be
an action RPG. As it is now, things are based on speed -- the attacks
coming out is based on speed, and the fighters with the highest speed
attack first. It's a turn-based RPG, dudes and dudette(s). --- Woof. Visit board 571756. #32454 ;; FAQs: 38 - 7037KB ;; I.W.W.H.T.Q. |
| SayainPrince | Posted 3/28/2007 1:34:57 AM | message detail |
|
It can't be completely turn based. You can run from enemies to avoid being hit -- you are actively dodging attacks. --- April 1st... The streak will die. Unleash the Animal |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/28/2007 1:47:55 AM | message detail |
|
You can't actively attack any enemies, it's based off a turn meter.
It's a turn based RPG since enemy and player attacks are turn based and
based on speed, not actively mashing buttons like an action RPG. Why is this topic about FF12 anyways? Why does every FF topic have to turn into crap about FF12? --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten: 8/52 |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/28/2007 2:12:41 AM | message detail |
|
Even then, the computer automatically selects options for your other
party members if you do not get around to it in time, no? It's not
turn-based. It's real-time action with a menu system that detaches
party mentality from the genre. Why should I give my best weapons to
guys I control half the time? 'Grats Squeenix, you squeenixed the life out of a perfectly good franchise. -Zoop --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/28/2007 2:17:53 AM | message detail |
|
Beyond that, the reason FFXII was brought into this discussion is that
all FF games that have something slightly different in them get a
stupid name rather than a number. We can all agree that FFXII is
different from, say, FFIII, as far as gameplay goes. With FFXIII, which
is being marketed as a "shooter/RPG" by Square-Enix, on the way, it
only seems terribly obvious that they're straying from the roots of
what made their games good. Therefore, why not eliminate the numbers
altogether? Mystic Quest is more of a traditional FF than XII, yet XII
has no dumb name, so what's the point? -Zoop --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| SayainPrince | Posted 3/28/2007 3:06:34 AM | message detail |
|
Let's assume it's a turn-based game; It's a horribly shoddy one. They
take the worst parts of action and turn based and give us the bastard
child of them. There's lots of waiting between attacks, which works in
traditional turnbased systems, but when you combine it with controlling
your character in real time, it just makes the controls seem
unresponsive. If I press left the character immediately goes left. If I press right the character immediately goes right. But If I choose to cast fire, I must then select Fire, then run around for a little while more until my character decides to do something. Apparently this is the only thing making the game turn-based in people's mind, so I wonder why they even stuck with it. Because it's out of its environment and doesn't help to make the game fun at all. --- April 1st... The streak will die. Unleash the Animal |
| Gbness | Posted 3/28/2007 3:27:23 AM | message detail |
|
It can't be completely turn based. You can run from enemies to avoid being hit -- you are actively dodging attacks. Incorrect. If you're involved in the battle at all, you can only dodge attacks by evasion or with a good shield, not by running away. --- Woof. Visit board 571756. #32454 ;; FAQs: 38 - 7037KB ;; I.W.W.H.T.Q. |
| SayainPrince | Posted 3/28/2007 4:06:38 AM | message detail |
|
Enemies chase you. If you run you can stay out of their range and not
get hit; But they won't dissappear like random encounters. It's really
no different from an action RPG where if you see an enemy then just
choose to avoid it -- it doesn't disappear, but you're not battling it. --- April 1st... The streak will die. Unleash the Animal |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/28/2007 4:08:25 AM | message detail |
|
Well, I can name turn based RPGs with computer controlled AI and
non-random encounters, so you guys are going to have to do better than
that. Mystic Quest is not really a true FF at all. --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten: 8/52 |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/28/2007 5:26:11 AM | message detail |
|
Give me a good turn-based RPG where you control one character. Name it,
and I'll say "You win, McFadden" and leave the topic. By good, I mean
an 80%+ at GameRankings, the definition of a good game (8/10 scale). -Zoop --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| PeTeRL90 | Posted 3/28/2007 5:33:18 AM | message detail |
|
8/10? I would think at least a 7 is classified as good. --- Game Collection: http://club.ign.com/b/list/custom?&lid=100018&owner=PeTeRL90&mode=vown |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/28/2007 7:14:11 PM | message detail |
|
75% or higher, then. A 7 is not good. A 7 is decent. Def Jam Icon got a 70%. That game is pure ****. -Zoop --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/28/2007 7:16:45 PM | message detail |
|
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/776/776454p1.html 7 = Decent. My website told me so. -Zoop --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| The Admiral | Posted 3/28/2007 7:59:07 PM | message detail |
|
The Final Fantasy games have not been true RPGs since FF4 anyway, and
this just continues the trend. "Turn based" is certainly not the
definition, though it has always been something that was present.
Traditionally, YOU play the "role" of a character and control that
character's development and progression. The "role" is carried out by
stat, attribute, and equipment development. FF4 popularized the shift
away from games where YOU were the hero (i.e., the hero was silent and
had no developed personality, since it was supposed to be you) to games
where you became a third party observer, watching a movie of sorts were
you have limited control over the party. FF7 took this to another
degree and actually added movies themselves to the games, something I
still think is abhorable. FFX again pushed the barrier by adding an
exhaustive amount of cut scenes with full character dialog... Whatever you think about this kind of game, it is certainly not the same as FF1 or the Dragon Quest series, which are more traditional RPGs. Maybe you can call them modern RPGs or whatever, but there should be some distinction. More to the original point, the games have NOTHING to do with one another. Square has never been consistent with the numbering anyway. FF:Adventures and FF:Legends are both turn-based RPGs, but they received names. FF:MQ is a lot closer to FF:1 than FF12 is, yet it has a name. FFX-2 is an actual sequel, so it has a title with 2 numbers... huh? Stupid, stupid, stupid. No rhyme or reason and no consistency. I think the numbers need to be ditched all together unless there is some story related reason to link them. Furthermore, Square should stop being so ****ing lazy by just slapping the FF label on every new RPG rather than taking the time to build new series. --- - The Admiral |
| ZoopSoul | Posted 3/28/2007 8:23:42 PM | message detail |
|
^agreed, for the most part. --- "Cupcake is stupid" - Hypro |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/29/2007 5:13:58 AM | message detail |
|
You do know FF Legend is a SaGa game and FF Adventure is the first game in the Mana series, right? You do know FF5 is just FF3 but better, so therefore is a true RPG, right? Give me a good turn-based RPG where you control one character. Name it, and I'll say "You win, McFadden" and leave the topic. By good, I mean an 80%+ at GameRankings, the definition of a good game (8/10 scale). Paper Mario TYYD? I don't know if this game is too old to be on that dumb site that apparently is the end all be all of gaming opinions, but Dragon Warrior was pretty good. So was Dragon Warrior 4. And I happened to like FFMQ, even if no one else did. There is a newer generation RPG where you do only control one character, and is turn based. I forget the name right now, but I'm sure it'll come to me. I doubt it's all that great, though. --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten: 8/52 |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/29/2007 5:18:39 AM | message detail |
|
Also, FF Adventure is CERTAINLY not a turn based RPG, I don't know what game you played. Furthermore, Square should stop being so ****ing lazy by just slapping the FF label on every new RPG rather than taking the time to build new series. I agree that they're overexposing FF now, but give me a break. Kingdom Hearts? It's A Wonderful World? Mushashi? They also took a risk on Full Metal Alchemist. They also have two new Mana games and a new Front Mission coming out. --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten: 8/52 |
| Killhealerfirst | Posted 3/30/2007 4:26:12 PM | message detail |
|
A "RPG" means "role playing game". The only true RPG ever is Dungeon
and Dragons. Any electronic RPG is not a RPG game, since you don't
actually play as a character, you still think and act like you, not as
a wizard or a fighter. --- --A good government is a government that makes most of people earn more money today than yesterday. |
| Killhealerfirst | Posted 3/30/2007 4:49:53 PM | message detail |
|
Psycho_Penquin Posted 3/28/2007 9:13:58 PM message detail You do know FF Legend is a SaGa game and FF Adventure is the first game in the Mana series, right? There is a newer generation RPG where you do only control one character, and is turn based. They are going to rm DQ I on Wii? --- --A good government is a government that makes most of people earn more money today than yesterday. |
| Psycho_Penquin | Posted 3/30/2007 9:39:09 PM | message detail |
|
Well they already have remade it twice, and SE loves remaking things, so it's possible. In this one I am thinking of, you do get 3 computer controlled AI characters. --- Psycho Penguin rules! MDTerp4Life | Games Beaten: 8/52 |
| garrett_daniels | Posted 3/30/2007 11:57:42 PM | message detail |
|
The only true RPG ever is Dungeon and Dragons. Any electronic RPG is
not a RPG game, since you don't actually play as a character, you still
think and act like you, not as a wizard or a fighter. I disagree. It's quite possible to play an RPG the way a character would, rather than the way you would. When playing one of my Morrowind characters I didn't steal from houses; from an "only a game" perspective anything able to be stolen without detection should be, but from a character perspective my character was "good" and so wouldn't steal except from bandits/muderers/etc. Similarly, I did not take on quests that went against my character's ethics, or, during quests, would choose statements/actions that reflected these ethics. I would even turn down things m character would disagree with even though I as the player knew they would likely lead to wonderfully valuable/powerful things. Of course a big factor is how true the game is to the RPG ideal. A Japanese-style RPG that gives you a cookie-cutter character with an appearance, name, behaviour, and beliefs already defined leaves no room for roleplaying anything other than that predefined character. You could pretend that you were really called Sir Lucius and were out to seek honour to win your lady's heart, but when it boils down to it every single cutscene has you called Garet and seeking to restore the balance of the four elements. As for eliminating FF's numerals, since there are now more spinoffs it may be that the numbers will fall out of significance. Certainly I wouldn't expect the numbering to continue beyond about 20. --- Like Web 2.0? Meet Walkthrough 2.0. http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Main_Page |
