Y'know what I'm talking about: those old games on floppies that basically said "please don't make illegal copies of this game" and provided quizzes or something that required the manual to solve. Sierra was rather prolific with it.

I'm wondering if that info has any place in our FAQs. It's obviously more of a morality issue than a financial or legal issue at this point, since the last games to use such measures are at least ten years old, now.

I'm only bringing this up now because I was sharing a brief correspondence with someone about my Quest for Glory FAQs. It was pleasant enough as we were going on about the second game (which technically didn't have copyright protection stuff, although finding your way to the money changer was quite difficult if you had no map to help you, which was provided in the manual).

However, as soon as he brought up the fourth game he (literally) began cursing me out about being stingy and a whore for Sierra, etc.

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CyricZ: Utter Modness - Holier than a CD?

...because that game has a part that requires the manual to solve a puzzle, specifically, a list a formulae, one of which needs to be provided at a point in the game.

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CyricZ: Utter Modness - Finishing a thought helps sometimes

...and I refused to provide that info in my FAQ.

Geez, what's with me today?

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CyricZ: Utter Modness - Day off = off day?

I remember those days... Was a pain in the ass if you lost the manual. Was definitely a Sierra thing, too.

I'd say that it's perfectly fine- people provide the Codec frequency for Meryl in their Metal Gear Solid FAQs, and that's the same basic principle.
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Q!

While I don't disagree, with older games like that it's more of a protection thing, with Metal Gear Solid it was a typical wacky Kojima fourth-wall kind of thing.
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Everybody's doin', what they shouldn't be doin'
Everybody's doin' it, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET

Yes, but the same rules still apply- I bought a copy of Metal Gear Solid that had no case (I bought it a year ago, and Gamestop no longer had the case.)

You can buy ancient Sierra games that don't have a manual. Granted, you're more likely to find a "RARE MINT CONDITION" on Ebay than an old beat up one at some garage sale, but it's certainly not impossible. For those instances, it's very handy for the buyer to be able to play the game through consulting your FAQ rather than not being able to play it.
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Q!

I think there's no big deal about it.


You should include the info, since it's not illegal to provide such information. And the guy that needs a FAQ for this purpose would really hate you.

Clearly he does.

Actually, he e-mailed me again parading around the fact that he found a crack that lets you bypass the copy protection part.

Of course, I can think of several sites that printed out that information. He hardly needed to go that far.

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CyricZ: Utter Modness - Scientific Solutions

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

I would say that it's OK; it's not illegal and I guess that it's no more morally wrong than using cheats to get to the last level or something.
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32/48 Full Circle | Y.T.W.S.R. |
The FAQer Profiles and History - http://homepages.tesco.net/vicky.reynolds1

Oh I hated games that did that -_- The amount of e-mails I've gotten about my Clockwerx FAQ, which required that exact sort of thing to unlock to play....
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If your boss ever gets you down, just stare at him through the prongs of a fork and imagine him in jail.
o.O Push button to turn on. Play with button to drive wild...

Well, the point of writing an FAQ for the game is to get the person from start to finish successfully. If said info (even if it's in the manual) is essential to completing the game, why not add it? Or has there been any legality issues between a FAQ writer and Sierra in the past, that you're choosing not to?

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Devin Morgan | CRP #3579
NES Completion Project: http://faqs.retronintendo.com

this would make a pirates life harder. Pirates have to pirate the cd and the manual. That would annoy them to the max.
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Lois: Peter is it safe to be firing real guns at each other in the house?
Peter: Alright alright, nobody fire at Lois, she's scared. - Family Guy

Actually, I think the thing that kept me from doing it is the fact that the very first message boards I frequented were Sierra's, and they're admins were very specific about not giving out the copyright protection info.

Kinda seems silly, seven years down the road, though. :-P

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CyricZ: Utter Modness - The eleventh word on p. 47

If it's useful information, add it. There's no point of making a guide if you don't want it to be able to help people.
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January 13th, 2006 - WWE Gold comes back to Kurt Angle!
February 12th - NWA Gold goes to Christian Cage! Life is good!

Personally, I don't see a problem with adding this old stuff. Sierra isn't even in business anymore. They were bought by Vivendi, I think. So, who are you really hurting? Is anyone going hungry if you keep them from tracking down a new manual? Probably not.

But on the other hand, if you're not comfortable with providing information that wasn't meant to be distributed freely when it was created, then don't let some jerk with email pressure you into it. It's your guide.
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The University of Texas Longhorns (13-0) National Champions

Well, 7 years later... I would imagine the games would be abandonware at this point (sorta like Oregon Trail :D). Go for it, dude.

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Devin Morgan | CRP #3579
NES Completion Project: http://faqs.retronintendo.com

I wasn't afraid of someone going hungry. I was afraid of some lawyer getting stingy.

Don't forget that only recently did Vivendi give permission for the fan-made King's Quest IX, after retracting their C&D on them.

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CyricZ: Utter Modness - Should have been VIII, lousy MoE

There's a rather huge difference between using a company's IP to produce your own game and just putting a code from the manual in a FAQ. Seeing as there are legitimate uses for a copy-protection code (user lost the manual or bought a used copy without a manual), Vivendi could not bring legal action to bear against you for providing what is, in essence, public information.
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www.papagamer.com
Own the game

I just wanted to point out that you made three posts in a row... which means j00 be a post whore!

CyricZ! Long time no see man! Hows it been?

Well, anyways... if you want people to bother you about it, put your email in the FAQ. If you dont want them to bother you, dont put any email address in the FAQ. :P

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Hang Me 2002
Delicious Web And Graphic Designs

At this point I couldn't care less about what companies once did in terms of copy protection and will have no problem adding such info. It's part of the walkthrough (heck, in the case of Sierra's Conquest of the Longbow, the whole bloody game consists of "look up in the manual" puzzles), and this is all for games that are hardly being sold anymore or not at all - copying these days is combated in other, more sophisticated ways.

As a FAQ writer I try to stay out of the whole issue, though. I'm not on the "side" of the publisher and not on the "side" of the potential software pirate. I explain how to get through a game, and how people get access to said game is their business alone. I have no trouble repeating any information from the manual - from something as simple to controls to QFG4's potion solutions - if I feel it's part of the overall package of information about a game.

But perhaps that is a bit of a hypocritical stance for me to take as I, in turn, would refuse to provide any information online cheating methods. Granted, GameFAQs would likely not let me post a FAQ that includes such info (or remove it later if it slipped through and somebody reported it), but I'm taking an actual stance against online cheating here myself by refusing to help anybody with it. One might argue that since I apparently do not have any trouble helping somebody pirate a game, that's a bit of a double standard...I don't know.

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Post may contain traces of common sense.
http://www.mastagus.com/sash/collection/collection.html

Oh, and because I cannot resist saying something about QFG2 whenever the game is brought up *nods at username*, I found the moneychanger in my first manual-less game by going out in the desert, fighting a brigand for money, then buying the map *before* I went to see the moneychanger. She's not actually indicated on it at that point but I could at least scout out dead ends by referring to the map until I blundered across the right one.

Furthermore, if you ask that talkative merchant in the first plaza for the way, he'll tell you, and his advice is completely correct. It's just very hard to understand. :)

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Post may contain traces of common sense.
http://www.mastagus.com/sash/collection/collection.html

Thanks for your input, guys. I think I'll toss the formulae in there.

The thing that got to me about this guy wasn't that he asked me if he could have the formula. We were talking about QfG2, then the very next e-mail I get, he immediately swears me out, not having even brought up QfG4 before.

Most people at least ask me if I can tell them (citing having "lost the manual").

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CyricZ: Utter Modness - Peer Pressure

I've dealt with that copy protection question thing, and I just put the information from the manual into the guide. I don't believe it should matter when the game (or franchise) is no longer in production.

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This is horrible. I care.
::Elite Rogue:: {//=|RDoN|=\\}

Considering I just re-installed an old game that asked me for a serial number off of the game case, I'd say post the formula. Now, I'm not saying people should go around posting serial numbers, but that's the difference: having the serial number is a far greater indication that you didn't pirate than having an in-game puzzle solution. If someone were to ask me "Hey man, do you have a copy of XXX game, I lost my serial number and need a new one," I'd tell them no because most likely they are a pirate. But if someone asks "Hey, do you know the solution to this puzzle, I lost my manual." then I really don't know as well if they are a pirate, or bought the game used, or really lost their manual or whatever.

Hope that helps.
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I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero... I have always only fought for the people I believe in. ~ Zero, MMZ4

The thing that got to me about this guy wasn't that he asked me if he could have the formula. We were talking about QfG2, then the very next e-mail I get, he immediately swears me out, not having even brought up QfG4 before.

Sounds to me like this was as least as much of a "rude reader" issue as an ethical/copyright one. I would definitely feel no obligation to somebody who, in response to me having taken out the time to help him, gets snippy with me about additional help he feels I should have provided.

Quest for Glory 3 phrases this pretty well when you get offered a gem by the elemental spirits or sprites or whatever they are (it's been a while!) and you try to take two - they will exclaim that you are "returning their kindness with greed". This is precisely what this individual appeared to be doing with you.

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Post may contain traces of common sense.
http://www.mastagus.com/sash/collection/collection.html