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| SinirothX - a serious problem for one or for all? |
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| From: me frog | Posted: 1/4/2004 12:50:40 PM | Message Detail |
| Come to think of it, was all this really "plagiarism" or using sources of direct game info without crediting? --- Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911! If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity |
| From: Warhawk | Posted: 1/4/2004 12:50:46 PM | Message Detail |
| Plus it would depend on how much damage they done [all the information taken] from that particuar guide. --- He's going James on us. -panzar dragoon |
| From: Warhawk | Posted: 1/4/2004 12:58:15 PM | Message Detail |
| I've been writing for almost 2 years Split and I did have something happen. My second guide NASCAR Thunder 2002 on the PlayStation2 was wrongfully taken by another site in which just saying the site is banned due to someone making death threats towards the owner of the site. He went about taking that guide and alter it, then I went about getting ahold of a someone who dealt with Copyright to deal with the situation. Also I am quite aware of the situation on eBay that one time with that woman who was ILLEGALLY selling the guides some of us done for free on this site and making a profit off of them. Since then I am well aware of things like that, and so what that I don't have all my guides done since I am a slow worker. --- He's going James on us. -panzar dragoon |
| From: me frog | Posted: 1/4/2004 12:58:31 PM | Message Detail |
| SI's last post just changed everything. Exactly how many traps did Siniroth fall into, SI? --- Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911! If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity |
| From: FFMrebirth | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:02:11 PM | Message Detail |
| I think he should just remove it. --- FAQs: (487KB) Reviews : 75 (401KB) IImastersII: [it] feels good to kill some people. |
| From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:08:17 PM | Message Detail |
| Warhawk, I believe Split was referring to the long delay between reporting plagiarism and CJayC taking action on it. --- Microsoft = the devil |
| From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:12:56 PM | Message Detail |
| I also note that SinirothX didn't address the points I brought up about information present in his faq that isn't directly displayed in the game, which strongly suggests copying from an official strategy guide. --- Microsoft = the devil |
| From: Split Infinity | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:14:52 PM | Message Detail |
| #3 In Dresspheres section of your guide, how come you point out exactly the same three statistics gunner excels at? Also general description starts very similar to mine... Mine... Stat pros - STR, AGL, ACCU Stat cons - HP, MP!, DEF!!, MAG!, MDEF!!, EVA!!!, LUCK! Yours... With this DS, you gain some Str, Acc, and Agl, but all at the expense of the rest of your stats... I ask you: Why do you do this? #4 Sleep status is next. If your girl is affected, it lasts *forever*. No time lapse of even a day will remove it. Mine... Sleep - G1004 | STACKS - no | POST-B. - no | TIME/HIT - both It does...? - Target falls asleep, ATB bar doesn't fill, commands cannot be entered. Visual feature?- Target kneels on the ground and 'ZZZ' sign appears above target's head. Icon feature? - 'ZZZ' sign. Now, by checking section explanation above, reader can see that sleep status is recovered by both being physically hit or certain time lapse. Latter, as already established, isn't true. Yours... Sleep | The character falls asleep completely, and cannot do | anything until attacked physically to wake them up, | or after specified time elapses. I restate my above question. #5 Overall, your guide structure seems so similar to mine, it isn't funny. I've parted storyline mission 6 in two parts, and you do *the same*? And what prompted you to include all ASCII maps all of a sudden (many of your maps have notes similar to mine)? #6 I'll specifically point out Guadosalam section, in which you state that certain door must be attempted to enter in each chapter, if you want to get inside in CH5. Yeah, same thing is also mentioned in my guide. So? All that's really required is getting Episode Complete for Guadosalam in CH5. There's no attempting to enter the door in earlier chapters necessary. Need I really go on? |
| From: Warhawk | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:19:24 PM | Message Detail |
| If this is really a big issue why not take it up with Siniroth personally like through e-mail or IM instead of posting here about it. --- He's going James on us. -panzar dragoon |
| From: Split Infinity | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:21:41 PM | Message Detail |
| Warhawk, I was referring to your suggestion about reporting this (which I have done, but there's 700+ other matters before mine). I am not prepared to wait that long, not for the second time Siniroth tried this. If Siniroth won't remove the guide by himself, it will be eventually by the webmaster. |
| From: Warhawk | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:25:12 PM | Message Detail |
| I know out of all of the things I reported only 1 was only looked over right now but that was like a few weeks ago. --- He's going James on us. -panzar dragoon |
| From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:30:51 PM | Message Detail |
| Personally I would have handled this in the same way Split did. The first time it happens, try and resolve it through email. But this isn't the first time, is it? Obviously SinirothX plans to continue doing stuff like this. What better way to counteract that then by exposing his practices to his peers? --- Microsoft = the devil |
| From: ASchwarzenegger | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:31:49 PM | Message Detail |
| Split infinity has became self aware. He came online at 1/3/2004 2:02:33 PM. He must be terminated. --- I'll be back |
| From: me frog | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:34:09 PM | Message Detail |
| Split infinity has became self aware. He came online at 1/3/2004 2:02:33 PM. He must be terminated. Um... this is a serious discussion, do you have to do this? --- Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911! If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity |
| From: Warhawk | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:34:43 PM | Message Detail |
| ASchwarzenegger Who is that, I've been trying to figure out who it is since everytime that I see this person I don't know who it is? --- He's going James on us. -panzar dragoon |
| From: me frog | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:37:27 PM | Message Detail |
| ASchwarzenegger= big fanboy of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Ya know, star of the Terminator movies and governor of California. --- Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911! If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity |
| From: Warhawk | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:43:44 PM | Message Detail |
| I know who he is since I've seen some of his movies as well as him being the governer of California. I would like to know if it's some kind of joke account or what because I asked him when he posted on the FCSB but there was no answer from him on that. --- He's going James on us. -panzar dragoon |
| From: ASchwarzenegger | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:48:57 PM | Message Detail |
| I am not a joke. I'm a version model T-1. I'm a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton. --- I'll be back |
| From: me frog | Posted: 1/4/2004 1:56:55 PM | Message Detail |
| I am not a joke. I'm a version model T-1. I'm a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton. Whatever you are, you're annoying. Please post this somewhere other than a topic like this one. --- Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911! If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity |
| From: Gbness | Posted: 1/4/2004 2:00:20 PM | Message Detail |
| ^ I agree 100%, me frog. --- FAQs: 18 - 2245K - #71 | Come post at Board 19313. Why the heck would someone sig one of their own quotes? I just don't get it. - Gbness |
| From: shoecream | Posted: 1/4/2004 2:06:41 PM | Message Detail |
| In regards to your first issue of the topic, there are a few a things that need to be addressed here. The first is that whilst playing and writing for the game, when the Mission Time! appeared on-screen (must've been late or something to that effect), I neglected to copy down the information, and I took it from your guide. Now, I thought this would be harmless, however, now that I see that, I realize that I should've asked you beforehand, so this was totally wrong to do. I should've at least creditted you if I were to do this. I will fix this immediately, and I assure you that this was the only one this was done with. And also, I do tend to move back and forth between abbreviations (noted in the "Using the FAQ" section), but, LB. is not one, so, I'm sorry, and glad that you caught this. It was not meant to blatantly anger you or cause anything like this to happen. My apologies. Translation: I was writing my guide, and I wasn't taking down notes because I was too busy looking at the girls change clothes, and I accidentally missed some stuff. So I decided to copy from SI's guide, because sheesh, he sure did a good job, and hey, who's gonna catch me? Seems like SI did, so now I'm gonna apologize for something that FAQ writer worth his salt should know, and that is to give credit where credit is due. Whoops, violated that golden rule of FAQing. Hopefully my peers will look past my fraudulent style of writing and compliment me for being able to humble myself and apologize for my wrongdoings. --- http://losmonos.netfirms.com/faqs/ - FAQer tools If it's not illegal, it must be moral. ~Non Sequitur |
| From: Steve McFadden | Posted: 1/4/2004 2:16:49 PM | Message Detail |
| It's not illegal to take FACTUAL INFORMATION, which it appears is what he did, no matter if it's wrong or not. I'd also like to question you putting heaps of useless and incorrect information in your guide just to "trap" someone. Nice going. And finally, like I said, it's not illegal to take factual information, since it's provided in the game itself. He did not take any creative writing you did, so he didn't do anything "illegal" or totally wrong, immoral as it may be. Sorry for having to step in and end your whole stupid argument. From: Juan Dixon | Posted: 1/3/2004 8:41:46 PM | Message Detail Writing for GameFAQs is a hobby that some people think will get them somewhere in life. As he has thousands and thousands of KB under his belt. LOL! Yes, and I don't think it's going to get me anywhere in life. I just do it for fun. I'm sure you had a point though.. --- [ #7 ] Evolution - Steve McFadden < Proud Fiance of Rebecca Skinner > |
| From: FFMrebirth | Posted: 1/4/2004 2:55:14 PM | Message Detail |
| WAIT! I should've addressed this earlier! Siniroth, since you have co-authored a guide with me, did you rip ANY of that FFO guide of someone else? I mean ANYTHING! --- FAQs: (487KB) Reviews : 75 (401KB) IImastersII: [it] feels good to kill some people. |
| From: jelly soup | Posted: 1/4/2004 2:58:07 PM | Message Detail |
| I've been quietly reading this topic for the last hour or so, and I think its time I posted something: SI, you do realize that your defeating yourself, right? By pointing out all the plagiarism, Sin can just fix those mistakes and update his guide. The chances of it being removed aren't that good, as the update will be posted LONG before your problem report is even close to being looked at. Just thought i'd throw that into the discussion. --- My video game collection: http://users.ign.com/collection/jelly_soup "A piece of paper is the window of illusion." |
| From: FFMrebirth | Posted: 1/4/2004 3:03:07 PM | Message Detail |
| Jeff keeps older versions of the FAQS on the database I believe. --- FAQs: (487KB) Reviews : 75 (401KB) IImastersII: [it] feels good to kill some people. |
| From: me frog | Posted: 1/4/2004 3:04:10 PM | Message Detail |
| SI, you do realize that your defeating yourself, right? By pointing out all the plagiarism, Sin can just fix those mistakes and update his guide. The chances of it being removed aren't that good, as the update will be posted LONG before your problem report is even close to being looked at. Just thought i'd throw that into the discussion. Not neccisarily. You haven't forgotten that Siniroth just told tons of people that he did take some things from SI's guide. Siniroth isn't going to post in this topic, "I admit to taking some stuff from SI's guide," then deleting it from his guide and telling Ceej that he never took stuff. --- Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911! If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity |
| From: Devin Morgan | Posted: 1/4/2004 3:06:28 PM | Message Detail |
| ^Oh, we've got that covered already. Someone I know already saved a copy of Siniroth's current version FAQ just in case... --- Devin Morgan | CRP #3579 Prolific Writers' Ranking Page: http://www.accentral.net/list.php |
| From: FFMrebirth | Posted: 1/4/2004 3:10:41 PM | Message Detail |
| In fact, I'm ripping the FAQ of ours down now until this is settled. I'll inform Jeff of this conundrum as "reason for removal" --- FAQs: (487KB) Reviews : 75 (401KB) IImastersII: [it] feels good to kill some people. |
| From: me frog | Posted: 1/4/2004 3:14:30 PM | Message Detail |
| ^Oh, we've got that covered already. Someone I know already saved a copy of Siniroth's current version FAQ just in case... Good idea. Damn, thiis does NOT look good for Siniroth. And that makes me upset :( --- Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911! If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity |
| From: me frog | Posted: 1/4/2004 3:16:23 PM | Message Detail |
| Oh, and FFMrebirth's "reason for removal" should get Ceej's attention, if he has not spotted this topic already. --- Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911! If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity |
| From: Ruzinus | Posted: 1/4/2004 3:40:28 PM | Message Detail |
| I think it'd be funny if in just one of the examples where SI accuses Sin based on him using wrong info only in SI's guide he lied about one of the false things and its actually true as some sort of double trap... --- "Oh no! Ruzi has been consumed by the dark side!"-ZeroTheLegend |
| From: djg40 | Posted: 1/4/2004 4:29:45 PM | Message Detail |
| #3 In Dresspheres section of your guide, how come you point out exactly the same three statistics gunner excels at? Also general description starts very similar to mine... Mine... Stat pros - STR, AGL, ACCU Stat cons - HP, MP!, DEF!!, MAG!, MDEF!!, EVA!!!, LUCK! Yours... With this DS, you gain some Str, Acc, and Agl, but all at the expense of the rest of your stats... I ask you: Why do you do this? Okay, I agree with you that he took some things and fell for your "traps." However, this point should be thrown out the window. In point #3 above, you say he says things very similar to your own guide. Holy ****, do you know why? Because that is actually what that particular item does. Would you rather him write in gobs of useless false information so that he confuses the reader? Of course, if he did that, he would be plagiarizing your "creative style." Also, I don't agree with setting "traps" to help further your own writing. Way to let your readers know the truth about each item and status effect! That only shows that you don't care about the people reading your guide, only about yourself. I don't give a **** if you have the "best" FAQ for any game on the site; Posting blatant lies right in your FAQ is nearly as bad as what SinirothX has done. In fact, I would rather read an accurate guide that has been plagiarized over a guide filled with useless information and millions of "traps." I am not condoning what SinirothX did; I think it is very bad. However, what you have done (tricking the reader with false information) is just as bad as what he did, in my eyes. You should both be ashamed of yourselves. --- Psycho Penguin: "I don't know how I got so high." Current Project(s): Secret GBA Game |
| From: Juan Dixon | Posted: 1/4/2004 4:30:13 PM | Message Detail |
| [This message was deleted by a GameFAQs Moderator] |
| From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/4/2004 4:51:23 PM | Message Detail |
| It's not illegal to take FACTUAL INFORMATION, which it appears is what he did, no matter if it's wrong or not. If by illegal you mean against the law, I don't know if that's true or not. If by illegal you mean against the contributor rules set forth on this site, I've already quoted the relevant rule earlier in this topic, and you must cite credit when taking factual information from another published source. If people would simply read the previous messages before posting, it would save us from arguing about certain points over and over (e.g. things which are specifically addressed in the contributor rules). As for Split's practices regarding traps, there's nothing in the contributor rules that I've seen that says you can't do it. I know for a fact he's not the only person that does it. Obviously it's proven to be a very effective anti-plagiarism tool. In fact, I would rather read an accurate guide that has been plagiarized over a guide filled with useless information and millions of "traps." You're exaggerating a bit now aren't you? I've never heard Split's guides described as being "filled with useless information." And I'm sure there aren't millions of traps. Strategy guide publishers use traps, what's the big deal? Personally, I'd rather read a guide that was 99.98% accurate and not plagiarized instead of one that was 99.99% accurate and plagiarized. The ends do not justify the means. Using plagiarism to boost your KB's or to improve one's faq is wrong, no excuses. --- Microsoft = the devil |
| From: djg40 | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:00:50 PM | Message Detail |
| Strategy guide publishers use traps, what's the big deal? Yes they do, and the majority of those published guides are awful. 99.98% accurate With the amount of false information and traps, I highly doubt Split's FAQ is 99.98% accurate. And no, as a reader, I would much rather read an accurate FAQ that was plagiarized over a FAQ filled with useless information and traps. --- Psycho Penguin: "I don't know how I got so high." Current Project(s): Secret GBA Game |
| From: Juan Dixon | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:08:58 PM | Message Detail |
| Yes, me too, because I don't want to read a guide with tons of false info, cuz then you don't know what's true and what's false, and then the whole guide is pointless. And with such a huge guides, I SERIOUSLY doubt those are the only mistakes he made. And I'm sure he made a lot of them unintentionally, unless he was trying to 'trap' people in Legaia 2 and Wild Arms 3 as well. |
| From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:09:05 PM | Message Detail |
| Yes they do, and the majority of those published guides are awful. Agreed, but if all strat guide publishers use traps, and not all of them suck, then traps can't be the reason that they suck, correct? With the amount of false information and traps, I highly doubt Split's FAQ is 99.98% accurate. You're right, it's probably more like 99.999998% accurate. It sounds like you haven't read his faqs. I've read several of Split's guides, and few people can match his accuracy and attention to detail. I really can't understand why this topic has turned into an attack on one of the best writers we have on this site. Until CJayC says different, traps are ok by me. I can't stand plagiarism. --- Microsoft = the devil |
| From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:11:43 PM | Message Detail |
| Yes, me too, because I don't want to read a guide with tons of false info, cuz then you don't know what's true and what's false, and then the whole guide is pointless. Guess what, it's impossible to guarantee that a faq is 100% accurate. By your logic, every faq on this site is pointless. Maybe if you had actually written a faq, you'd know how it works. --- Microsoft = the devil |
| From: Karpah | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:14:00 PM | Message Detail |
| Maybe if you had actually written a faq, you'd know how it works. Oh boy... laughing so hard.... please help... *cough wheeze* On-topic post to come in a second while I sort out my notes on this issue. --- [ #70 ] Push button to turn on. Play with button to drive wild... <Proud fiance of the Psycho Penguin> |
| From: Masamune3 | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:16:28 PM | Message Detail |
| Jim, that's Psycho Penguin, he's written more than a few. Most of them are crappy filler-induced guide, but guides none the less. --- If life hands you lemons, THEN YOU SIT DOWN AND EAT YOUR DAMN LEMONS! |
| From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:19:31 PM | Message Detail |
| Jim, that's Psycho Penguin, he's written more than a few. Most of them are crappy filler-induced guide, but guides none the less. Gotcha ;) I stand corrected. My point stands however, that you will never know what's true and what's false when reading a faq, unless you verify things yourself from actual gameplay. <100% accuracy doesn't make a faq pointless. --- Microsoft = the devil |
| From: djg40 | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:20:13 PM | Message Detail |
| Agreed, but if all strat guide publishers use traps, and not all of them suck, then traps can't be the reason that they suck, correct? You know for a fact that all publishers use traps? And I would say that yes, the traps (being incorrect/useless information) are a major reason why they are generally awful. probably more like 99.999998% accurate. I doubt that number even more. He admitted to no less than seven parts of his FAQ that are incorrect. Additionally, he made it very clear that these are not the only "traps" he has. I can guarantee his guide is not as accurate as you think. few people can match his accuracy and attention to detail. Oh yes, his accuracy that includes plenty of useless information to trap other writers. Of course, I thought we were writing for the reader; I guess I am mistaken. His accuracy has taken a slight dip, seeing as he has admitted to placing several incorrect pieces of information, intentionally. Incorrect information doesn't seem all too accurate to me. Now, I'll give you that Split is a fine writer, but to use false information and inaccuracy in a guide drops him a few levels in my eyes. To be a great writer, I would expect nothing but useful information and accuracy, not useless information and inaccuracy. --- Psycho Penguin: "I don't know how I got so high." Current Project(s): Secret GBA Game |
| From: Masamune3 | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:23:57 PM | Message Detail |
| The only thing proved in this topic so far is that Split Infinity is a complete idiot for purposely putting false information in his guides, but hey, let's overlook the OTHER bad stuff. Split is one of the best RPG authors on this this. As much as you may think you hold that position, you don't. Hell, my Stat Maxing FAQ holds more useful information that your entire FFX FAQ/Walkthrough. Steve, to put it simply, you are more or less the fool around here. Every time you post it confirms it. -- If life hands you lemons, THEN YOU SIT DOWN AND EAT YOUR DAMN LEMONS! |
| From: Karpah | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:25:44 PM | Message Detail |
| Can EVERYONE just put the claws away for a second while I sort my thoughts out? Thank you. --- [ #70 ] Push button to turn on. Play with button to drive wild... <Proud fiance of the Psycho Penguin> |
| From: Warhawk | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:27:24 PM | Message Detail |
| Speaking of accuracy, I know that I tend to try to make sure that the information I put in mine as accuarate as I possibly can. --- He's going James on us. -panzar dragoon |
| From: Masamune3 | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:27:46 PM | Message Detail |
| Dan, you raise some good points. But, I would not hesitate to say that his FAQ/Walkthrough for FFX is easily the best you will find. Granted, I don't think traps are particularly necessary, but overall, the guide is excellent. Don't tell me you can't agree with that. --- If life hands you lemons, THEN YOU SIT DOWN AND EAT YOUR DAMN LEMONS! |
| From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:32:37 PM | Message Detail |
| You know for a fact that all publishers use traps? No, I don't know it for a fact. But I know that some do. And I would say that yes, the traps (being incorrect/useless information) are a major reason why they are generally awful. It's important to distinguish between small quantities of intentional incorrect information (traps) and large quantities of non-intentional incorrect information. I suspect that the latter is the true reason why most strat guides suck. I can guarantee his guide is not as accurate as you think. I suppose that means you've read his guide and played the game yourself, checking for accuracy. If not, what guarantees can you make about his accuracy? Of course, I thought we were writing for the reader I don't think it's wrong to take reasonable steps to protect oneself from plagiarism. The definition of what's reasonable is what this debate has turned into. I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinion of course, but until CJayC puts something in the contributor rules about it, Split can do what he likes. Personally I don't set traps using incorrect information in my guides the way that he does. But that doesn't mean I think he should do things the way I do them. --- Microsoft = the devil |
| From: me frog | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:39:57 PM | Message Detail |
| I suppose that means you've read his guide and played the game yourself, checking for accuracy. If not, what guarantees can you make about his accuracy? Well Jim, I suppose you've read SI's guide and played the game yourself, checking for accuracy. If not, what guarantees can you make about his accuracy? --- Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911! If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity |
| From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:42:52 PM | Message Detail |
| Well Jim, I suppose you've read SI's guide and played the game yourself, checking for accuracy. If not, what guarantees can you make about his accuracy? That's exactly what I'm saying I've done. The accuracy of his FFX guide is well established. Just ask the gurus of the game (e.g. Theoden). Split and I have often compared notes about various aspects of FFX-2. It's allowed both of us to increase the accuracy of our guides. --- Microsoft = the devil |
| From: me frog | Posted: 1/4/2004 5:47:00 PM | Message Detail |
| ...I've already quoted the relevant rule earlier in this topic, and you must cite credit when taking factual information from another published source. I already told you this, you don't have to credit when taking info from other sources. Let's say you want some weapons info. Here's the info: [Weapon Name] Attack: 5 Defense: 7 If you take that from a source, and put it in your guide, you aren't doing something horrible that could get you in trouble. Sure, it's wrong not to credit a source, but it isn't required. --- Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911! If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity |
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