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SinirothX - a serious problem for one or for all?

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From: Split Infinity | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:02:33 PM | Message Detail

So after telling you to quit once (nicely, might I add... I thought, 'Hey, kid is new, I'll let him be.') you continue to do it, albeit more artistically, yet still...

For starters open/download both my guide (version 1.17), found here...

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/final_fantasy_x_2_d.txt

... and SinirothX's (version 1.4), found here...

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/final_fantasy_x_2_e.txt

--> So first thing that fell into place was abbreviations and 'mistakenly' misspelling a word.

- Open my guide and do a CTRL + F search for words: Strip Search.
- Notice how I've shortened word 'Leblanc' to LB. twice and misspelled 'relieve' as 'releve'...

STRIP SEARCH?
The LB. Syndicate may have stolen the Gullwings' hard-earned sphere, but you're going to sneak into Chateau LB. and steal it right back! Locate the Syndicate members deployed across Spira and releve them of their clothing!
Objective: Acquire three women's Syndicate uniforms

- Now open SinirothX's guide and do CTRL + F search for words: Strip Search.
- Notice how you have 'fixed' first 'LB.' to Leblanc, but forgot to do the same for second 'LB.' I have, as well as leaving word 'releve' misspelled

STRIP SEARCH?
The Leblanc Syndicate may have stolen the Gullwings' hard-earned sphere, but you're going to sneak into Chateau LB. and steal it right back! Locate the Syndicate members deployed across Spira and releve them of their clothing!

Nice going there, Siniroth. Thumbs up for you. Grrr.

--> One out of many bits you copied... it involves looking up information from my guide and rewriting it with your own words, however...

In my Accessories entry, section 15, subsection Status accessories, take a look at the entries for Lag Shock (CTRL + F, type in G15074) and System Shock (CTRL + F, type in G15090). You'll notice that I say:

Lag Shock - G15074 | STR-5 | Sell/Buy: 3750/15000 | U
Abilities: Slowtouch, innate Slow ability
Add. info: Girl can put her target into slow status when using any type of PATK, can cast Slow

System Shock - G15090 | STR-10 | Sell/Buy: 3750/15000 | U
Abilities: Stoptouch, innate Stop ability
Add. info: Girl can put her target into stop status when using any type of PATK, can cast Stop

The trap I have set up here is 'innate Slow ability' and 'innate Stop ability'. Were you to actually make the section for yourself and make your own effort to check out by yourself what are the effects of these two accessories, you'd notice that girl wearing either of accessories *cannot cast neither Stop or Slow*. Only effect Lag Shock has is Slowtouch, and System Shock has Stoptouch.

And what do you have in your guide...

Lag Shock
| Str-5, Slowtouch, Slow - can use Slow | 15000/3750 |
| ability as well as adding the Slow stat.| |
| to all physical attacks and also used | |
| skills | |

System Shock
| Stoptouch, Str-10; inherent Stop | 15000/3750 |

Just a simple 'mistake' at two of the same places? I don't think so. And this isn't the only one. He uses a lot of my ideas and claims they're his. Yeah right.

SinirothX, I demand you stop this.
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FFX-2 US guide: db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/final_fantasy_x_2_d.txt

From: I Beat Kao | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:11:19 PM | Message Detail

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: Mr Jason | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:18:35 PM | Message Detail

Eh, if you are bothered by this, report it to Ceej
---
Thank you, St. Peter. I look forward to hearing your response to the following: ( | )
This is your ass. It is very fat.-Seanbaby

From: Split Infinity | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:26:05 PM | Message Detail

I'm aware of the feature, but I ain't willing to wait for 700+ problems before mine.
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FFX-2 US guide: db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/final_fantasy_x_2_d.txt

From: Devin Morgan | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:27:30 PM | Message Detail

SI, for what it's worth, I passed it (this topic) up a quicker way so hopefully you'll get results quicker. Plagiarists though, meh... Hopefully this isn't truly the case.

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Devin Morgan | CRP #3579
Prolific Writers' Ranking Page: http://www.accentral.net/list.php

From: Snow Dragon | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:48:37 PM | Message Detail

This is too funny.

From: FFMrebirth | Posted: 1/3/2004 3:10:15 PM | Message Detail

This is a shell shocker =O!

Holy ****!
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FFMrebirth: FAQs: (487KB) Reviews : 75 (401KB)

From: Vegita | Posted: 1/3/2004 3:56:50 PM | Message Detail

From: Warhawk | Posted: 1/3/2004 4:00:27 PM | Message Detail

Hey man, if I'm writing a guide for a game and another one exists, I'll doublecheck my own stuff against the other persons' to see if I missed anything or if I need to improve upon something they did...but to directly lift stuff? Classless.

That reminds me of what I done before I started work on my Silent Hill FAQ. I checked the other General FAQs just to see what I would have to cover before I started work on it, and after I finished it there were some that were impressed with how I done it.

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He's going James on us. -panzar dragoon

From: FFMrebirth | Posted: 1/3/2004 4:05:53 PM | Message Detail

I always e-mail the author first if I'm going to look of their work. If they say no, I don't look at their work. I also ask for permission to repeat something they did if I don't have it in my guide.

I think this could've been avoided if there was more communication.
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FFMrebirth: FAQs: (487KB) Reviews : 75 (401KB)

From: Warhawk | Posted: 1/3/2004 4:08:49 PM | Message Detail

Asking permission to look at someone's guide is weird.

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He's going James on us. -panzar dragoon

From: FFMrebirth | Posted: 1/3/2004 4:14:13 PM | Message Detail

Naw. I always ask permission for most stuff. It's sort of really formal I guess (shrugs)
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FFMrebirth: FAQs: (487KB) Reviews : 75 (401KB)

From: Shark463 | Posted: 1/3/2004 5:03:05 PM | Message Detail

FFM, may i have permission to reply to your post?
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I'm a furry.

From: FFMrebirth | Posted: 1/3/2004 5:41:23 PM | Message Detail

Yes
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FFMrebirth: FAQs: (487KB) Reviews : 75 (401KB)

From: Juan Dixon | Posted: 1/3/2004 5:43:38 PM | Message Detail

DON'T DO IT

From: TyAlt21 | Posted: 1/3/2004 5:45:53 PM | Message Detail

Maybe we should let Siniroth defend himself. He certainly deserves the chance to explain to all of us what happened. He is one of the better known FF writers out there, this doesn't seem like something he would do.
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FAQ's/Walkthrough's Contributed: 1 (19k)
Review's Contributed: 2 (5k)

From: Starion | Posted: 1/3/2004 6:38:16 PM | Message Detail

Yeah, hearing both sides is a good thing. You do have to admit though that the similarities including the misspelled word is rather suspicious.

From: Lialianye | Posted: 1/3/2004 7:27:38 PM | Message Detail

Now now, let us not make accusations before hearing Siniroth's side. Hell, it may have been SI that copied HIS work.

NOTE: I am NOT saying that SI did any such thing, I was just making a point.

From: djg40 | Posted: 1/3/2004 7:41:37 PM | Message Detail

When I write for a game, I don't even look at the other guides for that game until I am done writing for it. Of course, that might be because I haven't written for very many games with other guides up, or because I haven't written for any popular games. However, I think that even were I to write for a new game, I wouldn't look at the other guides until I was done, in order to avoid this sort of "confusion."

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Current Project(s): Secret GBA Game

From: me frog | Posted: 1/3/2004 7:48:17 PM | Message Detail

I did that once, with Mario and Luigi. Before I sent my complete version in, I checked the others to see if there were any major things in the game that I was missing that wouldn't make it complete.

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If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity

From: Masamune3 | Posted: 1/3/2004 7:53:02 PM | Message Detail

I tend to check others work, work that I know I can trust when making my guides. For example, I was not sure about the attack names in all three of my Super Butouden guides (I was playing through a ROM), so I consulted an FAQ. Of course, I credited them for the names, and that was all. But if I were to ever use someone else's info, I make sure to ask someone first. Of course, I prefer to use my own work entirely.
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http://faqs.ign.com/articles/446/446326p1.html

From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/3/2004 7:58:13 PM | Message Detail

There's also evidence that he copied from Brady (or perhaps Ultimania). He lists stats for bosses that aren't found in the scan screen, but are found in the bestiary of the brady strat guide. Such as, Str, Agl, Def, etc., and status defense percentages (only immunities are displayed in Scan).

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Microsoft = the devil

From: Shark463 | Posted: 1/3/2004 8:08:42 PM | Message Detail

ok FFM

ill use my 1 permitted reply later on..
---
FDDmw5a A C-- D+ H-- M P R+ T+++ W-- Z- Sm++ RLU/- a- cn++ d- e- f-- h* iw++ j-- p* sm#
I'm a furry.

From: Demoness of LUE | Posted: 1/3/2004 8:28:33 PM | Message Detail

From: me frog | Posted: 1/3/2004 8:40:05 PM | Message Detail

I don't even think you have to give credit, though I don't see why you wouldn't...
---
Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911!
If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity

From: Devin Morgan | Posted: 1/3/2004 8:42:26 PM | Message Detail

^Actually, you don't _need_ to give credit, being that it's factual information and all that. But it would be nice.

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Devin Morgan | CRP #3579
Prolific Writers' Ranking Page: http://www.accentral.net/list.php

From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:07:27 PM | Message Detail

Actually, you do need to provide credit to the source:

From http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/help/hcontrib_2c.html:

What information can I use from other sources without permission?
Without permission, you are still free to use facts and other non-creative information. Of course, you still must provide credit to the source of information in your own guide; if you don't, you are plagiarizing.

For example, you could get the hit points for the enemies in a game from the official strategy guide for that game and post them in your own guide in your own format. These are facts, and not protected by copyright. However, if you were to copy the guide's strategy on how to beat the boss, that would be a copyright infringement, as you are copying their creative work. Copying the format of the table of hit points would also be a violation of their copyright.

He didn't credit the source for the factual information, therefore he's plagiarizing.

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Microsoft = the devil

From: Masamune3 | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:10:08 PM | Message Detail

Jim: Can you come on AIM? I'm getting bored... :(
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http://faqs.ign.com/articles/446/446326p1.html

From: me frog | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:15:47 PM | Message Detail

Plagiarism is when you take someone else's own work without permission.

Finding a source of information directly from the game (weapons, enemy info, items, etc.) is not plagiarizing, and therefore doesn't require credit.

Still, I don't get why someone wouldn't credit a source.
---
Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911!
If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity

From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:22:11 PM | Message Detail

That's my point dammit. He couldn't have got that data by playing the game normally, unless he'd determined lots of complex things like damage formulas. No mention of those in his faq.

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Microsoft = the devil

From: nintendomaster14 | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:24:03 PM | Message Detail

First of all, you DO NOT have to credit any guide for factual information (like Devin said) because first of all, how do you know he copied? maybe he figured it out on his own (although I see how this might be near impossible).

Secondly, I am not quite sure of Siniroths copying, especially if he did copy factual information. Does it really matter? All, I know is that I wrote a FAQ with him, and I dont think I could trust anyone more than him in the FAQing business.

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From: Devin Morgan | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:27:43 PM | Message Detail

What Siniroth appears to have done was not copying factual information, but SI's creative writing. Reason for that is because Siniroth could've presented it differently than SI, thus the difference in creative information like that.

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Devin Morgan | CRP #3579
Prolific Writers' Ranking Page: http://www.accentral.net/list.php

From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:27:47 PM | Message Detail

If he didn't copy split's faq, how do you explain the quote that split listed, which is word for word what's in split's faq?

I quoted the contributor's guidelines from gamefaqs. Read it, before saying you don't have to credit sources for factual information.

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Microsoft = the devil

From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:30:01 PM | Message Detail

Split doesn't list stats that aren't readable from the game itself.

SinirothX does.

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Microsoft = the devil

From: Devin Morgan | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:32:30 PM | Message Detail

According to CJayC, "factual" information is basically the in-game values that are what they are, and cannot be changed (item statistics, HP values, enemy strength/weakness, etc). He must've changed the guideline, but this was never really an issue of "giving credit" even though it was factual info.

Creative information on the other hand, is based off that person's interpretation of what to do next, etc. By copying it word for word, you're plagiarizing; however, if you write it up differently (in your own actual words), then it shouldn't be a problem.

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Devin Morgan | CRP #3579
Prolific Writers' Ranking Page: http://www.accentral.net/list.php

From: Devin Morgan | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:33:15 PM | Message Detail

Although... There are instances where it's still plagiarism even when you reword someone's creative work, but it's still "the same" as the source. Case in point being the similarities above.

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Devin Morgan | CRP #3579
Prolific Writers' Ranking Page: http://www.accentral.net/list.php

From: JungleJim | Posted: 1/3/2004 9:37:33 PM | Message Detail

As an example of what I'm talking about, take a look at my Aeon Stats FAQ for FFX. There are many numbers in there which are "factual data", constants in the game which can't be changed. But they aren't available through direct examination. I take pains to explain how I arrived at these values, so that I couldn't be accused of copying them from some other published work, such as ultimania (not even sure if ultimania has them).

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Microsoft = the devil

From: The Admiral | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:04:00 PM | Message Detail

I'm really surprised that Siniroth would have done such a thing, but it's completely disgraceful that he did. He seems to have put a lot of his own work into the guide, yet he chooses, at parts, to rip someone else's work off? Well, I hope CJayC removes this guide (and all his other work as should be done) and he's wasted hundreds of hours of his time. That's a fair price for being a plagiarist, the only real "no-no" of the FAQ world on this site.
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From: Mr Jason | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:09:09 PM | Message Detail

^^^Why should Cjay remove ALL his work, despite your comment saying it would be a fair price. I mean, wait until he comments on the accusations and his decision to take down the "copied" sections or not.

But anyways, topic creator, have you even emailed Siniroth yet and asked him? Chances are, he has no knowledge of this topic, or these accusations if he isn't informed.
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Thank you, St. Peter. I look forward to hearing your response to the following: ( | )
This is your ass. It is very fat.-Seanbaby

From: me frog | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:13:52 PM | Message Detail

Are we instantly jumping to the conclusion that Sniroth plagiarized already?
---
Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911!
If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity

From: The Admiral | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:15:05 PM | Message Detail

"^^^Why should Cjay remove ALL his work, despite your comment saying it would be a fair price."

From the help files:

Originality - All files posted on GameFAQs must be original work, with all credit to external sources given plainly and clearly. Submitting plagiarized work or violations of copyright is grounds for removal of all site contributions, and could also easily get you in legal trouble.

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From: djg40 | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:18:34 PM | Message Detail

But anyways, topic creator, have you even emailed Siniroth yet and asked him? Chances are, he has no knowledge of this topic, or these accusations if he isn't informed.

He still frequents this board, so he should see this topic. He posted in yesterday's Prolific Tournament topic, so I am sure he will visit this board again soon.

---
Psycho Penguin: "I don't know how I got so high."
Current Project(s): Secret GBA Game

From: Mr Jason | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:18:50 PM | Message Detail

But does he even do that? I mean, I have had a person with 5 FAQ's directly copy my WW guide (Back before the Japanese release) and only the WW guide was removed. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF HE DID STEAL SI's WORK UNTIL SINIROTH RESPONDS Anyways....
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Thank you, St. Peter. I look forward to hearing your response to the following: ( | )
This is your ass. It is very fat.-Seanbaby

From: The Admiral | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:21:12 PM | Message Detail

I should have made it clearer in my first topic that IF he's found to have plagiarized -- and the evidence does seem to suggest that -- then his work should be removed from this site. It would honestly be nice to see CJayC take a hard stance on this issue and follow the rules he actually posts.
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From: me frog | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:28:21 PM | Message Detail

If Siniroth did plagiarize, I hope he admits it to CJayC; hopefully, he might be let off easier (maybe just have that guide taken down). I'd hate to see Siniroth banned from writing FAQs.
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Homer Simpson:Hello? Operator? Give me the number for 911!
If you can't impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your stupidity

From: Adrenaline | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:29:22 PM | Message Detail

Since Siniroth is a "big" contributor, I doubt CJC will have the heart to go through with removing all his work. Take SeanKelson, for example. Sean has many FAQs for big titles and was caught plagiarising -- twice, I believe. However, CJ was rather lax in dealing with his transgression. Only Sean's plagiarised FAQs were removed. Besides FAQs are never really completely wiped off from the site.

I find it extremely amusing that one of our "beloved" contributors was caught red-handed. This is great. :]

From: shoecream | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:52:38 PM | Message Detail

Whoops:

http://www.losmonos.netfirms.com/sidebyside.png
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From: Mr Jason | Posted: 1/3/2004 11:00:46 PM | Message Detail

shoecream: Isn't the quote you circled actually said in the game?

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Thank you, St. Peter. I look forward to hearing your response to the following: ( | )
This is your ass. It is very fat.-Seanbaby

From: Devin Morgan | Posted: 1/3/2004 11:04:36 PM | Message Detail

Well, I hope the rules aren't lax to the point where if Siniroth pops in this topic and apologizes (or rather, an email to Ceej), that things won't be so rough.

There was once a time when CJayC was actually tough on plagiarists. Brakker-Z anyone?

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Devin Morgan | CRP #3579
Prolific Writers' Ranking Page: http://www.accentral.net/list.php

From: Son Kain | Posted: 1/3/2004 11:14:35 PM | Message Detail

shoecream: You circled a quote in the game. In Final Fantasy X-2, during missions, a text box opens up to explain what you have to do. Both Split and Siniroth wrote that out and EVERY guide that does that WILL have that info, but what Split showed was he left "traps" in his guide (which could prove the terrible english in the FAQ itself. Maybe, maybe not) and showed that Siniroth misspelled the word relieve, as he did, thus he copied. The chances of that are small, but still possible, but he went on to further prove his point and did so with the accessories list.
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